Audio Tracks - Priority Poll (unofficial, but still...)

Hi everyone! The long anticipated Audio Track support is not here yet, and according to the things I’ve read here/there, it seems not #1 priority. It’s #1 for me, and the reason I’m pretty much using other DAWs for now (Cubasis mainly). The three main downsides with Cubasis (imho) are no Link, weak piano roll, and bad presets management.
I’m glad I bought NS2, and I’ll patiently wait till it gets Audio tracks, but I was wondering if anyone feels there’s some features that should get higher priority than this. From what I gathered, reverb and iPhone support are presently in queue before Audio tracks. I’m sure we all have other reverb AUs we can use meanwhile, as for iPhone support, I’m biased in that regard as I prefer using DAWs only on iPad. But I wanted to hear what others think is the most vital feature that NS2 is missing. Please list only one, as the developer has a lot on his hands at the moment I’m sure :) This is an unofficial poll, but hopefully will shed some light on the general consensus.

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Comments

  • edited November 23

    Audio Track support is not here yet, and according to the things I’ve read here/there, it seems not #1 priority.

    Actually now audio tracks are #1 priority :-) It's next big milestone.

  • edited November 23

    @epFox said:
    From what I gathered, reverb and iPhone support are presently in queue before Audio tracks.

    iPhone support is already done, so no worries there. B)

  • @dendy said:

    Audio Track support is not here yet, and according to the things I’ve read here/there, it seems not #1 priority.

    Actually now audio tracks are #1 priority :-) It's next big milestone.

    Awesome!! So anxious to finally have a DAW on iOS that I can just do everything in! I mean I do have a somewhat working workflow, but all this unnecessary switching between apps just makes me loose focus sometimes... And I’m always afraid to open my Cubasis projects (not because they suck lol) because once opened anything I do just alters the project instantly. I had it crash couple of times and the projects got messed up. I have trouble finishing projects as it is, and that “feature” just gives a permanent feel of them being “unfinished” ;) project management and piano roll are really my main “attractions” to NS2. Oh and the Slate sampler... wow, that thing is just awesome! So easy/straightforward to use.

    I generally like the NS2 UI, but one major downside I think is not being able to quickly jump back and forth between inserts FX (AU’s). Cubasis really nailed that bit. BM3 would be 2nd place, and NS2 would be excellent if it had a little “FX” button right on the tracks. Jumping back to the tracks is already simple.

  • @number37 said:

    @epFox said:
    From what I gathered, reverb and iPhone support are presently in queue before Audio tracks.

    iPhone support is already done, so no worries there. B)

    Nice, I got a friend who only uses iPhones, now I’ll “advise” him to get it for sure :)

  • @dendy i think it would be fair for everyone on here who wishes for this feature (which I believe is a lot) to get an honest timeframe of what date audio tracks are planned for.

    Dates can change, but I understand software developers and they do work to timeframes, otherwise chaos reigns.

    So is this currently planned for q1 2020, q4 2020, 2021? Somewhere a date will be in mind, and what % of the task is currently completed will be known. I’d be happier knowing a date of (say) q1 2020 is a target but if it slips and we are told, I would understand. I know Matt is the developer but I believe you are close to the development and are more active here than Matt.

    Thank you!

  • edited November 23

    This is completely on Matt - just to clear things - i really honestly don't know, and even if i would know, i'm not "authorised" cause simply i'm not Blip Interactive, i'm just friend who is trying to help ;)

    Matt choosed strategy of radio silence about deadlines after few very wrong estimations (like promised initial release to end of 2017, or iPhone version at spring 2019). We even do not talk (mostly) about deadlines until they aren't very close (like few days or max weeks). I simply do not ask "when". I totally respect his decision to not promise or guesstimate anything. His approach is just concentrate on work, do things best he can, and then surprise users with update in appstore.

  • @johnrob66 said:
    So is this currently planned for q1 2020, q4 2020, 2021? Somewhere a date will be in mind, and what % of the task is currently completed will be known. I’d be happier knowing a date of (say) q1 2020 is a target but if it slips and we are told, I would understand. I know Matt is the developer but I believe you are close to the development and are more active here than Matt.

    I’m sorry, but we can’t help you there. Matt has made it clear that he doesn’t want to make his targets public and even when we know something, we can’t tell you guys about it. But also, we don’t at the moment.

  • @dendy @Stiksi thank you and I believe you 100%. I do think though that Matt should make a comment on future development to his loyal customers. Engaging with audiences is always best!

  • Knowing when new features are coming out doesn’t make a difference to me. I work with what I have. When and if something new comes out that is useful to my way of working then I will incorporate it. Devs don’t owe me anything except a quality app for my money. Many devs have announced new apps or updates which never came out. I’d rather not be disappointed and just focus on what I have.

  • The fact that I know Matt is still working on it is enough for me. When he says he will do something, he’s going to do it. That’s all I care about. Mad respect, Matt :+1:

  • @drez said:
    The fact that I know Matt is still working on it is enough for me. When he says he will do something, he’s going to do it. That’s all I care about. Mad respect, Matt :+1:

    You know it will be top quality!

  • This is fanboy talk! I guess that’s where we are still at with iOS music apps, it’s not a fully fledged business yet. I get it, but I’ve been in software development most of my life and and this is not how it works usually.

    Peace. Let’s just wait and play with what we have for our money, we knew what we were buying! I’m just advocating a more inclusive approach to the very loyal fans here.

  • The term “fanboy” is typically used in a derogatory manner. Is there any need to be derogatory toward someone who is happy with the product as-is and is looking forward to planned updates without feeling entitled to knowing exactly when those updates are coming? If an app doesn’t do what I need right now I will find something that does. There are plenty of options.

  • edited November 24

    Announcing when something is expected to be ready does not change at all when it will actually be ready. Simply guessing at when something will be ready when you really have no way of knowing is dishonest. Telling people something not based on fact just because they push you to doesn’t help anyone.

    Matt doesn’t owe you anything @johnrob66. I respect Matt for doing what he thinks is best. If that’s “fanboy” talk to you, then so be it.

    It’ll be ready when it’s ready. And it’ll be up to Matt’s trademark quality standards when it does. That’s enough for me.

  • I think having respect for the developer comes from appreciating his work. Personally, if I appreciate and love something I would be very, very curious to know when it arrives. So why would it be a bad thing for me to ask when approximately it will be ready? I don’t want to appear as some sort of bad boss imposing deadlines on my employee, why should it be interpreted like that? I have no control over the process nor do I feel the developer owes it to me to “deliver” in specific timeframe. I Just don’t have that sort of feeling about it at all.

    Nothing wrong with being curious about when something will become available, especially something as crucial as audio tracks. Incidentally, @johnrob66 (and myself) are being greater fanboys than those to whom it doesn’t matter when it will be available lol. And I’m cool with that. The things of art in life are what I value the most. So naturally I have lots respect for those people who create them. They inspire me, and that’s the highest level of accomplishment in my book.

  • @epFox said:
    ... The things of art in life are what I value the most. So naturally I have lots respect for those people who create them....

    That’s awesome! So I guess you’ll respect his privacy as well.

    Most great art actually takes time to create. Michael Angelo took 4 years to paint the Sistene Chapel. Da Vinci took 3ish years to finish ol’ Lisa and maybe worked on it some years after he started.

    The best of the best in art can’t be rushed, it comes when it comes and takes time to complete to the artists satisfaction, which then becomes the wonder of us all. This is why NS1 and NS2 have been a design masterclass for other iOS developers. Beautiful yet solid, NS2 will last like the Acropolis or the Colosseum have, elegantly and triumphantly, but only because the modest hands of an artist and architect such as one Matt Borstel took the time and attention to the details that none of us blind mice can appreciate until it becomes so easy to use, we will feel like we’ve been using it out whole lives on our first try. It will be like pouring a glass of a 1945 Romanee-Conti for each of us that chooses to pay the pittance that will be due to admire such beauty in our own hands. For this privilege I will wait until my dying breath, and if that day comes for me empty handed, then I will celebrate with all the music that the journey has inspired me to write with the version he blessed us all with to that day until I myself expire.

    Godspeed Matt! :heart:

  • Personally, I think there’s absolutely no harm in asking questions. It’s a shame we can’t answer the schedule-relating ones but we try our best with the others 🙂

    Last time Matt gave us a guesstimate, he had to submit one of his legs as collateral, so he’s understandably a bit shy about doing it again. We’ll definitely let you know if he changes his mind. But it is very unlikely.

  • @Stiksi said:
    Personally, I think there’s absolutely no harm in asking questions. It’s a shame we can’t answer the schedule-relating ones but we try our best with the others 🙂

    Yeah, I don’t think it’s a bad thing either. If I was working on something and people inquired about when it would be ready, I would feel happy as it shows people care about what I’m doing.

    Last time Matt gave us a guesstimate, he had to submit one of his legs as collateral, so he’s understandably a bit shy about doing it again. We’ll definitely let you know if he changes his mind. But it is very unlikely.

    I totally understand, being a developer myself, I know there are many variables involved. And unless you design the same program twice for the same environment, new issues can arise delaying the original estimate (like iOS updates etc). It’s just the nature of the beast.

  • Without audio tracks, this app is not a DAW that can be taken serious. You lack the ability to freeze (AU instruments, manage And mastered your vocals and other audio recorded stuff. Let just get started with it- I get it that it will take a number of updates to get it right, but not doing it is the wrong approach. We need to start this to gain experience and remove bugs

  • @otis said:
    Without audio tracks, this app is not a DAW that can be taken serious. You lack the ability to freeze (AU instruments, manage And mastered your vocals and other audio recorded stuff. Let just get started with it- I get it that it will take a number of updates to get it right, but not doing it is the wrong approach. We need to start this to gain experience and remove bugs

    :lol:

  • @drez said:

    @otis said:
    Without audio tracks, this app is not a DAW that can be taken serious. You lack the ability to freeze (AU instruments, manage And mastered your vocals and other audio recorded stuff. Let just get started with it- I get it that it will take a number of updates to get it right, but not doing it is the wrong approach. We need to start this to gain experience and remove bugs

    :lol:

    🤣🤣

  • @otis Ridiculous tone aside, I'm not sure why you think Matt's "not doing it". Everyone involved has said that he is working on audio tracks now.

    Dude has a track record of taking his time and delivering at a high quality. He's also got a dedicated beta testing team that helps catch most of the bugs before they make it out to us regular users, which is part of why he has such a reputation for quality.

    In the meantime, lots of people are making music with NS2 and there are several different workarounds for the lack of audio tracks.

  • @otis said:
    Without audio tracks, this app is not a DAW that can be taken serious. You lack the ability to freeze (AU instruments, manage And mastered your vocals and other audio recorded stuff. Let just get started with it- I get it that it will take a number of updates to get it right, but not doing it is the wrong approach. We need to start this to gain experience and remove bugs

    Well, everyone has different applications and some use it to make music as we speak... Personally, I’m not using NS2 at the moment because I need audio tracks. But I knew it before I got it. So what was the point of getting it? It’s like a concept of Kickstarter, you pay for something that has a great concept, yet doesn’t exist at the time you pay for it. What makes NS2 appealing for me? Well, you can sort of see the “vision” of the developer through the way existing functionality works.

    For example, how likely is it that Cubasis will completely redesign it’s piano roll and automation/midi data editing interface? Very very unlikely I would say. Or how likely is it that Auria gets any interface improvement that would make it feel more suitable for iPad and not look like a straight PC port? Or BeatMaker 3 getting a more ergonomic UI with clear separation between Song and Scenes modes and quick way to navigate, and better piano roll? See, when you look at it this way, there aren’t really that many options on iOS, and it totally makes sense investing into something that has a good direction. Freezing tracks is important of course on these limited devices, but I’m sure it’s on the list. Personally, I think Audio & freezing would be at the very top of my list from the start, but then from development side of things it might’ve been more efficient to do it this way... Certain apps think “small”, looks like NS2 developer has much broader vision, so the sequence of steps is clearly not influenced by money alone, as putting in Audio from the start would have a lot of people jumping on it.

    Maybe leaving off Audio was a way to sort of acknowledge that the DAW is incomplete so that people wouldn’t go leaving appstore reviews saying it’s “weak” in comparison. This way the rich feature set is already present, just a whole chunk of the functionality is not in place. So people can’t comment that it’s bad... if it’s not there ;)

  • This has all been explained a number of times. The initial plan was to have the app release at the end of last year with audio tracks and convolution reverb in June of this year. However, issues with AU came up that were more time-consuming to fix than expected because many of the issues were with the AU's and not necessarily anything to do with NS2. It's pretty much as simple as that from what I understand. It's funny how many people have decided that there are some "ulterior motives" behind all this without seeming to know this basic information. =)

  • @anickt said:
    This has all been explained a number of times. The initial plan was to have the app release at the end of last year with audio tracks and convolution reverb in June of this year. However, issues with AU came up that were more time-consuming to fix than expected because many of the issues were with the AU's and not necessarily anything to do with NS2. It's pretty much as simple as that from what I understand. It's funny how many people have decided that there are some "ulterior motives" behind all this without seeming to know this basic information. =)

    Exactly.

    Like...why would you have released the app with just audio and no Midi or Slate or Obsidian? You pick what will get you the best bang for the buck if you have to choose which will come first. I absolutely would never have bought NS2 if it was just audio. We have other apps for that. NS2 established itself precisely for what it DID release with. I submit that waaaaaay more people bought it because of what it came out with than if it just released with audio only :lol:

  • @drez said:

    @anickt said:
    This has all been explained a number of times. The initial plan was to have the app release at the end of last year with audio tracks and convolution reverb in June of this year. However, issues with AU came up that were more time-consuming to fix than expected because many of the issues were with the AU's and not necessarily anything to do with NS2. It's pretty much as simple as that from what I understand. It's funny how many people have decided that there are some "ulterior motives" behind all this without seeming to know this basic information. =)

    Exactly.

    Like...why would you have released the app with just audio and no Midi or Slate or Obsidian? You pick what will get you the best bang for the buck if you have to choose which will come first. I absolutely would never have bought NS2 if it was just audio. We have other apps for that. NS2 established itself precisely for what it DID release with. I submit that waaaaaay more people bought it because of what it came out with than if it just released with audio only :lol:

    Audio + Midi without Slate or Obsidian would still make NS2 stand out from the rest, imho. Both are excellent, don’t get me wrong, but ultimately what’s really missing from the iOS platform atm is a well designed full-featured DAW. A perfect studio where one can efficiently complete entire tracks (or at least keep a bunch of unfinished ones) ;)

  • @epFox said:

    @drez said:

    @anickt said:
    This has all been explained a number of times. The initial plan was to have the app release at the end of last year with audio tracks and convolution reverb in June of this year. However, issues with AU came up that were more time-consuming to fix than expected because many of the issues were with the AU's and not necessarily anything to do with NS2. It's pretty much as simple as that from what I understand. It's funny how many people have decided that there are some "ulterior motives" behind all this without seeming to know this basic information. =)

    Exactly.

    Like...why would you have released the app with just audio and no Midi or Slate or Obsidian? You pick what will get you the best bang for the buck if you have to choose which will come first. I absolutely would never have bought NS2 if it was just audio. We have other apps for that. NS2 established itself precisely for what it DID release with. I submit that waaaaaay more people bought it because of what it came out with than if it just released with audio only :lol:

    Audio + Midi without Slate or Obsidian would still make NS2 stand out from the rest, imho. Both are excellent, don’t get me wrong, but ultimately what’s really missing from the iOS platform atm is a well designed full-featured DAW. A perfect studio where one can efficiently complete entire tracks (or at least keep a bunch of unfinished ones) ;)

    I think this is just a difference in point of view. NS1 was a strong synth-based app that had basic sampler functionality and NS2 continued this approach with better sampler capability and more extensive audio manipulation planned on the roadmap. For example Beatmaker took the opposite approach and launched as a fully audio / sample oriented app, and BM3 has an incredible sampler. They didn’t make their own synth at all and only got that capability with 3rd party plugins. Auria did the same thing with a different emphasis.

    It’s just a difference of approach, the end goal is still basically the same. All started with a strong affinity to one thing and are converging in the middle.

  • Same here and couldn‘t agree more. Many users already ran away because of no audio tracks, no ableton link start/stop, invisible AUv3s, the „drum sampler“, inability of recording midi to track from fx or routing to other AUv3s. It‘s been a LONG time now.

    @johnrob66 said:
    This is fanboy talk! I guess that’s where we are still at with iOS music apps, it’s not a fully fledged business yet. I get it, but I’ve been in software development most of my life and and this is not how it works usually.

    Peace. Let’s just wait and play with what we have for our money, we knew what we were buying! I’m just advocating a more inclusive approach to the very loyal fans here.

  • @Jay_Zen said:
    invisible AUv3s

    This is the first time I'm hearing about something like this. Could you explain what it means? Do you mean you aren't seeing some AUs appear in the effects section or the AU instrument?

  • Back in the day I made (and sold) a bunch of music with a hardware system that had a lot less capability than NS2. Seems like people are more concerned about what they want than what they can do. That’s not fanboy-ism. It’s just fact.

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