StepPolyArp Unit not working

edited December 2018 in Support

I’m pretty sure this is a bug report, though the bug could be with StepPolyArp. All I know is it doesn’t happen in other hosts. I believe it’s a side effect midi routing issues with AUv3 midi.

StepPolyArp Unit is an AUv3 arpeggiator par excellence. It has two modes: sequencer and arpeggiator. Sequencer runs freely and doesn’t require a note to trigger it. Sequencer is working fine. Arp requires midi notes to trigger the arp. There doesn’t seem to be any way to trigger the arp since notes can’t be passed to it in NS2 as far as I can tell.

As NS2 doesn’t have an internal arpeggiator (which is fine by me), SPA is the best alternative I can think of, so it would be great to get it working.

I realize this is something wrapped up in sorting AUv3 midi support in general, but bring it to attention here as it represents one of the uses that might be overlooked in designing a solution.

Until then, it can be used in standalone or in AudioBus sending midi to NS2, so no immediate support needed - just logging the issue.

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Comments

  • Just to add - here’s the desired behavior:

    • Load an obsidian or other synth patch
    • Add SPA Unit as an AU midi FX
    • In SPA arp mode, pressing keys on the keyboard triggers the arp in SPA using those keys
    • The synth plays the arp output from SPA. It does not play the keys pressed on the keyboard. (I.e. no midi-through)
    • The arp output from SPA can be recorded in the timeline.
  • Right now, MIDI FX are placed in series in the playback chain so it goes:

    MIDI from track / UI / external input -> MIDI FX 1 -> MIDI FX 2 -> MIDI FX n -> Instrument

    So although it's not recorded (which I realise people would like) I would definitely expect it to arpeggiate incoming MIDI notes and then pass out the arpeggiated versions to the instrument.

    Don't suppose you have any MIDI FX before SPA? Not all MIDI FX seem to pass incoming MIDI through to their output.

  • No, just loading SPA in as a AU Midi FX on either an Obsidian or AU Instrument track. Nothing else at all loaded.

    I know that SPA can send midi because the sequencer (free running) works. However, the arpeggiator must receive a note, or notes, to trigger. It doesn’t receive anything. There’s something not happening in that MIDI from track / UI / external output -> MIDI FX1 chain.

  • Yep tried this last night. Seems that SPA isn’t detecting any notes being played by KB1 or the internal keyboard. It’s just silent. Very odd.

    I hope the whole midiFX note recording path gets resolved soon. Using AB3 to host midiFX is a workflow option but not condusive to creative flow imho.

  • Any news on this one @Blip Interactive ? Really hope it can be fixed quick. SPA’s such a great app, missing it badly in NS2.

  • I've been duped. I purchased SPA not that long ago (6 months or so?). I thought I'd give it a whirl in NS2 to see if I could get it working, only to find I must buy it again if I wish to use it as an AUv3. I won't repeat here what I now think of SPA's developer.

  • @tom_tm said:
    I've been duped. I purchased SPA not that long ago (6 months or so?). I thought I'd give it a whirl in NS2 to see if I could get it working, only to find I must buy it again if I wish to use it as an AUv3. I won't repeat here what I now think of SPA's developer.

    Lol, you’re going to probably be re-buying a lot of IAA if you want devs to do the work so they work as au in Ns2....

    SPA doesn’t work in ns2 in any case though.

  • edited December 2018

    I believe the fault with SPA lies with the developer, not with NS2. BramBos' AU's work fine (or at least appear to). I'm sure all will be ironed out fairly soon. The problem, if there was a problem at all is, that for a long time the concept of a universal plugin system like VST or AU never worked on iOS. The developers of AB came up with a solution, then Apple killed that. So they made a workaround and that up until now has been what most developers of music apps accepted, but it was never a 'standard'. That of course being IAA. Now Apple has offered a far better solution- to bring the whole AU thing over from their desktops. I think in the long run this is a better strategy, it's just now in the interim period, a lot of feathers will be ruffled. But that's something which is out of the hands of the developers, because Apple will always play god. In the meantime, it's probably best not to keep tagging BlipInteractive, because the more you do this, the more you may end up just being ignored! Blip knows you and others are eager to get this fixed and asap. :)

  • Ah okay. I read it as if it should theoretically work. But like I said, I've got the non-AU version so I can't test. :)

  • @dendy is the master of the vanishing post ;)

  • @tom_tm said:
    Ah okay. I read it as if it should theoretically work. But like I said, I've got the non-AU version so I can't test. :)

    Like dendy said in the post that disappeared, it’s a ns2 problem. No issue in other hosts. I tagged blip because there wasn’t a resolution post from them confirming it would be fixed. The last blip post on this was still at the ‘enquires’ stage..

  • Not necessarily. If I know Blip, he would have followed the correct protocols advised by Apple for processing the necessary data in an AU. You mustn't forget that people like Steinberg/Auria et al are big companies with big development teams all working together. There may have been a problem already, that was ironed out, with workarounds by companies such as Steinberg, and not fixed on the developer's side. That would explain why for instance, BramBos' AU's work okay. And I know where they didn't, Brambos announced that a plugin was going to be fixed so it would work correctly in NS. That to me says the 'problem' if any was with those who created the plugin. But it's early days, and NS2 is less than a week old. Like I said, be patient, and the problem with eventually be fixed. :)

  • edited December 2018

    @tom_tm said:
    Not necessarily. If I know Blip, he would have followed the correct protocols advised by Apple for processing the necessary data in an AU. You mustn't forget that people like Steinberg/Auria et al are big companies with big development teams all working together. There may have been a problem already, that was ironed out, with workarounds by companies such as Steinberg, and not fixed on the developer's side. That would explain why for instance, BramBos' AU's work okay. And I know where they didn't, Brambos announced that a plugin was going to be fixed so it would work correctly in NS. That to me says the 'problem' if any was with those who created the plugin. But it's early days, and NS2 is less than a week old. Like I said, be patient, and the problem with eventually be fixed. :)

    Not a case of being patient. Need @Blip Interactive to confirm he’s fixing it this end or not because if he isn’t then I need to hassle the spa dude..

  • @tom_tm i did some investigation, found few things, informed matt .. no needed to discuss it here, just technical details. I'm pretty sure matt will know how to deal with this problem ...

  • @dendy said:
    @tom_tm i did some investigation, found few things, informed matt .. no needed to discuss it here, just technical details. I'm pretty sure matt will know how to deal with this problem ...

    Good to know matt’s dealing with it on ns2 side :)

  • edited December 2018

    @tom_tm said:
    And I know where they didn't, Brambos announced that a plugin was going to be fixed so it would work correctly in NS. That to me says the 'problem' if any was with those who created the plugin.

    Not completely true. In this case it was Perforator which (as a bonus feature) sends out MIDI CC data. In most hosts this CC data is not automatically passed on to other plugins if the user doesn't want it, but NS2 does and there's no option to disable it. To avoid weird side-effects I added a switch to disable sending of AU MIDI data in my plugin. I wouldn't say that it was a problem with my plugin per se, I just added a switch to make life easier for end-users B)

  • edited December 2018

    @flockz
    Good to know matt’s dealing with it on ns2 side

    Didn't say nothing like that. :mrgreen:

  • All interesting! As is that mod @brambos on your plugin. We could be getting closer to sussing this out. But yeah, everything @dendy just said. :)

  • But yeah, everything @dendy just said.

    Dammit. I said that i said nothing ! :mrgreen:

  • @dendy said:

    @flockz
    Good to know matt’s dealing with it on ns2 side

    Didn't say nothing like that. :mrgreen:

    Argh. Would be good to get a straight answer!? @Blip Interactive Is this being fixed on ns2 side or do people need to contact SPA dev? Thanks

  • @tom_tm said:
    You mustn't forget that people like Steinberg/Auria et al are big companies with big development teams all working together.

    Auria’s a one-man show (I don’t mean to nitpick - Rim deserves props).

    Otherwise, carry on :)

  • Argh. Would be good to get a straight answer!? @Blip Interactive Is this being fixed on ns2 side or do people need to contact SPA dev? Thanks

    Dendy's given me a summary. Sounds like it works in other hosts but not in NS2 so it's my problem and I'll look into it. Sorry, when a thread gets too long I tend to stop reading. A clear succinct report of the problem accompanied with any other info you feel might be important is much better. I think someone else has reported a problem with SPA already.

  • edited December 2018

    @flockz said:
    Argh. Would be good to get a straight answer!? Blip Interactive Is this being fixed on ns2 side or do people need to contact SPA dev? Thanks

    Easy, don't be mad. I was just making a bit fun.

    Ok, let's make things clear - to avoid misunderstandings and stay in good mood.

    I do not speak for Blip Interactive in any way. Apart of fact that i was helping with beta testing and some in-app content, and i'm trying help people here because i have some knowledge, i'm nothing more that anybody else here. So i just express my opinions, which aren't in any way more valid than yours or anybody else here. I'm just trying to be helpful, but when it comes to some clear statements regarding development, its Matt who is in charge. Only what Matt said should be considered as official statement of Blip Interactive.

    So hold in mind i'm basically nobody, just ordinary guy who is trying help with few things to people who needs / wants help. And sometimes i make (or at least i try) jokes :mrgreen:

    Are we ok ? I hope yes ;-)

    btw. i promise i will try just edit my posts, not delete and repost ;)

  • @colonel_mustard said:
    Auria’s a one-man show (I don’t mean to nitpick - Rim deserves props).

    Otherwise, carry on :)

    Whoops. There was me thinking they/he were a big cheese. My bad/mistake. :)

  • @Blip Interactive said:

    Argh. Would be good to get a straight answer!? @Blip Interactive Is this being fixed on ns2 side or do people need to contact SPA dev? Thanks

    Dendy's given me a summary. Sounds like it works in other hosts but not in NS2 so it's my problem and I'll look into it. Sorry, when a thread gets too long I tend to stop reading. A clear succinct report of the problem accompanied with any other info you feel might be important is much better. I think someone else has reported a problem with SPA already.

    Thanks for reply and clarification :) Cool, if the details earlier in the thread that you discussed don’t give you what you need I can write it up in more detail :)

  • edited December 2018

    I just downloaded and installed SPAUnit (now) which includes the AUv3 midi effect But it does not show up in NS2 in the MIDI fx panel (slot) for Obsidian or any other synth track. Does NS2 have a re-scan operation to find it? I understand from this thread that there are some problems to be sorted out, but I thought at least I could find SPA in the midi FX panel - and yeah it is open. I’m just now switching over to NS2 from other apps, so going through that learning curve, and I apologize in advance for the newbie questions. Thanks - tone.

    EDIT - sorry, I rebooted the iPad and SPA did show up in NS2. Looking forward to being able to play through it via Obsidian keys and having midi recorded (I.e. the stuff in this thread)

  • iOS sends a message to the app when a new Audio Unit is installed. Unfortunately, whenever NS2 gets this message and asks for the list of plugins, the new list seems to be the same as the old one.

    This is one of a few issues I found during development so I thought it would be a good idea to list them in the manual:

    https://www.blipinteractive.co.uk/nanostudio2/user-manual/AUInstrument.html#au-compatibility

    ... but don't interpret that as 'all AUs have these problems' - most are fine, there are just a few common themes worth knowing about.

  • Update on Step Poly Arp - I've found the problem, which was due to the way I check for the number of MIDI inputs the Audio Unit has. It's an easy fix rather than some major architectural problem but I'll hang back a bit longer on releasing it so I can gather a few more bits and pieces into the same update.

  • @Blip Interactive said:
    Update on Step Poly Arp - I've found the problem, which was due to the way I check for the number of MIDI inputs the Audio Unit has. It's an easy fix rather than some major architectural problem but I'll hang back a bit longer on releasing it so I can gather a few more bits and pieces into the same update.

    Ah that’s great news! Thanks for looking in to it and the future fix :)

  • @Blip Interactive said:
    Update on Step Poly Arp - I've found the problem, which was due to the way I check for the number of MIDI inputs the Audio Unit has. It's an easy fix rather than some major architectural problem but I'll hang back a bit longer on releasing it so I can gather a few more bits and pieces into the same update.

    Right on, man! Thanks for letting us know!

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