Ableton Live Set Export

I dreamed of this. Is it by any chance planned ?

Comments

  • What sort of export are you looking for? When I think of Live Set export, I Tend to assume it’s mostly clip-based, like the Session view in Live. NS2 works like the Arrangement view and that’s mostly like any other DAW.

    At the moment, you can export stems and midi easily from NS2 and those open in Ableton. Do you mean something like track automation perhaps?

  • edited December 2018

    It’s a fully defined thing. Official library supplied by Ableton themselves.

    Ableton Live Set Export

  • @number37 said:
    It’s a fully defined thing. Official library supplied by Ableton themselves.

    Ableton Live Set Export

    This is a BOSS MODE link to share but I’m not sure it answers the question of “how would you imagine a NS -> LIVE project export to appear in Live?”. Gadget, for instance, being loop/section based, exports a set of audio clips that matches the Gadget project’s layout.

    Knowing NS’ ability to mixdown both stems and region specific audio files, this certainly seems possible to me from the outside but currently there’s no method in NS to define arbitrary region(s) as a song “sections” that might smoothly translate to Ableton’s session view.

    Song section markers (as requested elsewhere) might make this “good”. Or maybe most Ableton users would be happy with multiple single measure exports? Honestly, I don’t use Ableton so I have no idea. I think Matt’s in the same not-a-live-user boat so knowing what @sirspank and other NS2+Live users hope to see is very likely a useful thing to know.

  • -----> @Stiksi said:

    What sort of export are you looking for? When I think of Live Set export, I Tend to assume it’s mostly clip-based, like the Session view in Live. NS2 works like the Arrangement view and that’s mostly like any other DAW.

    At the moment, you can export stems and midi easily from NS2 and those open in Ableton. Do you mean something like track automation perhaps?-----

    Yes Clip based would work just fine for now. In the Future maybe it will get more refined but would be enough for me

    Thing is i often do sketches on the iPad which i throw into Live if i want to Edit "deeper" (and faster)
    I noticed that i mostly use the apps that support A.L.S.Export and those who don`t less and less.

    I am aware that i can export from NS2 and import into Ableton. No i don`t need-mean Automation
    Only (big) downside is how many steps that takes and how much space for error you create like this.

    I have to 1) Export Stems in NS2 2) export them 3) Choose correct tempo 4) Import them one by one into Ableton .

    Ableton Live set export would be 1) Export from NS2 2) Open file on my Laptop via Live. Done

    Groovebox has this feature and it works like a charm. The Patterning app has this also and Korg Gadget and some other apps i think.

  • @Will said:

    @number37 said:
    It’s a fully defined thing. Official library supplied by Ableton themselves.

    Ableton Live Set Export

    This is a BOSS MODE link to share but I’m not sure it answers the question of “how would you imagine a NS -> LIVE project export to appear in Live?”. Gadget, for instance, being loop/section based, exports a set of audio clips that matches the Gadget project’s layout.

    Knowing NS’ ability to mixdown both stems and region specific audio files, this certainly seems possible to me from the outside but currently there’s no method in NS to define arbitrary region(s) as a song “sections” that might smoothly translate to Ableton’s session view.

    Song section markers (as requested elsewhere) might make this “good”. Or maybe most Ableton users would be happy with multiple single measure exports? Honestly, I don’t use Ableton so I have no idea. I think Matt’s in the same not-a-live-user boat so knowing what @sirspank and other NS2+Live users hope to see is very likely a useful thing to know.

    Please refer to my answer to "Stiksi" above as it pretty much answers your question i think.

    Thank you

  • edited December 2018

    @sirspank
    Groovebox has this feature and it works like a charm. The Patterning app has this also and Korg Gadget and some other apps i think.

    What was trying @Stiksi explain is, that there is currently not direct way how to "translate" linear sequencer view in NS2 into "session" view of Live. All those apps (gadget, groovebox) have "session" like views - i mean tracks are vertical columns (in contrary to NS2 horizontal rows), and every horizontal row is "scene" with "patterns" in each track(column)

    This concept doesn't exist in NS2 at all, clips are placed randomly on linear timeline from left to right ...

    Linear sequencer view in NS2 is like taking Live session view, rotate it by 90 degress anti-clockwise + removed "scene" rows - everything is just linear.. so there isn't any logic concept which can currently NS2 use to translate it's linear view into 90 degreess rotated "session" view with "scenes" ...

    You maybe do not realize this, if you create just simple song loop and put all clips with same size one bellow other on all tracks -on first look this may looks like JUST rotated session view, easy to export... But think about fact that they can be shifted left-right, they can even start outside of selected loop, etc ....

    That's why, until there will be not proper "session" view implemented in NS2, or at least something like "song markers" mentioned by @Will, this thing:

    1) Export from NS2 2) Open file on my Laptop via Live. Done

    Is not possible to do at al.

    Simply, some preliminary implementations needs to be done first (eg. session view OR at leas some form of song position markers with some basic loop-inside markers logic), to make meaningfull Live Session export possible.

  • @dendy said:

    @sirspank
    Groovebox has this feature and it works like a charm. The Patterning app has this also and Korg Gadget and some other apps i think.

    What was trying @Stiksi explain is, that there is currently not direct way how to "translate" linear sequencer view in NS2 into "session" view of Live. All those apps (gadget, groovebox) have "session" like views - i mean tracks are vertical columns (in contrary to NS2 horizontal rows), and every horizontal row is "scene" with "patterns" in each track(column)

    This concept doesn't exist in NS2 at all, clips are placed randomly on linear timeline from left to right ...

    Linear sequencer view in NS2 is like taking Live session view, rotate it by 90 degress anti-clockwise + removed "scene" rows - everything is just linear.. so there isn't any logic concept which can currently NS2 use to translate it's linear view into 90 degreess rotated "session" view with "scenes" ...

    You maybe do not realize this, if you create just simple song loop and put all clips with same size one bellow other on all tracks -on first look this may looks like JUST rotated session view, easy to export... But think about fact that they can be shifted left-right, they can even start outside of selected loop, etc ....

    That's why, until there will be not proper "session" view implemented in NS2, or at least something like "song markers" mentioned by @Will, this thing:

    1) Export from NS2 2) Open file on my Laptop via Live. Done

    Is not possible to do at al.

    Simply, some preliminary implementations needs to be done first (eg. session view OR at leas some form of song position markers with some basic loop-inside markers logic), to make meaningfull Live Session export possible.

    I am no programmer so i don`t understand the technical aspect but i understand your description about session vs arrangement.

    I would even be happy if the Arrangement-Stems of NS2 where "Transported" Into Ableton`s Arrangement view.

    But wishful thinking.

    Ok thanks for the info nonetheless

  • edited December 2018

    @sirspank said:
    I have to 1) Export Stems in NS2 2) export them 3) Choose correct tempo 4) Import them one by one into Ableton .

    Ok, there are a couple things you can do to simplify your process a little:

    In NS2, export your stems zipped, that way you have only one file to transfer.

    Then, in Finder (or explorer if you’re Microsoft-inclined), select all your stems, CMD-drag them into your live set (in Arrangement mode). Boom, you have all your stems on different tracks.

    If you forgot the Tempo, select all clips in Ableton, turn off Warp on one of them and it turns off Warp on all of them (keep current timing? No.). Find the tempo by zooming in on the kick (for example) and adjust the tempo until it aligns with the grid. It’s much quicker to just check the tempo on your NS2 project. When you have the tempo of the project right, you can turn Warp back on.

    You can then cut it up as you wish by selecting regions of the track and dragging them to the Session view as scenes.

    It’s not the same as exporting from Gadget using the official route, but it also offers a lot more control and will make transitioning very complex projects easier because you get to make the important decisions on the Ableton side. I’ve been using this method for a long time and I think these apps belong together.

    Personally, I think that it would take a fairly large change in the NS2 workflow for Live Set Export to become top priority, but one such route would be what dendy described. I’m rooting for this, I would love to have that kind of functionality built in. But I’m also fairly happy with what we have right now.

  • edited December 2018

    @Stiksi
    In NS2, export your stems zipped, that way you have only one file to transfer.

    Just to avoid confusion, NS2 actually doesn't export "stems" (stems = individual clips) but rather whole tracks..
    (You can choose if you want to export just top level tracks in project hierarchy or ALL tracks)

    of course you can export just selected region not whole song, but still it exports tracks in that selection, not stems -

    if you want export real stems (eg loop per every clip) you must do it manually by setting loop to that clip, soloing track and then perform export just for looped area / soloed track...

  • @dendy said:

    @Stiksi
    In NS2, export your stems zipped, that way you have only one file to transfer.

    Just to avoid confusion, NS2 actually doesn't export "stems" (stems = individual clips) but rather whole tracks..
    (You can choose if you want to export just top level tracks in project hierarchy or ALL tracks)

    of course you can export just selected region not whole song, but still it exports tracks in that selection, not stems -

    if you want export real stems (eg loop per every clip) you must do it manually by setting loop to that clip, soloing track and then perform export just for looped area / soloed track...

    Actually, "stems" refers to whole tracks, not clips. NanoStudio exports stems with the best of them. :star:

    I think the term is originally from film production. Audio teams pass the final editors separate 'stems' of dialog, ambient sound, foley/effects, score, etc so they can deal with them as a whole (instead of 240 tracks and 50,000 clips).

  • edited December 2018

    @Will said:
    Or maybe most Ableton users would be happy with multiple single measure exports?

    Thinking about this a little more, a proper Ableton 'clip' style export seems doable but probably not trivial.

    Possible workflow:

    1. User selects "Ableton Export" somewhere in the mixdown screen
    2. A new option appears where NS asks the user what resolution to use for clip export
    3. Resolution is in terms of bars. Say, 1bar, 2bar, 4bar, 8bar or 16bar.
    4. It would then essentially operate the same as when setting "Region" -> "Song Loop" but it would programmatically set the song loop length to whatever the user selected and move it to 1:1:00, bounce that set, move the loop, bounce that set, move the loop...



    That last bit is more of 'batch process' mindset and very much doubt that's how it would be done, code wise, but hopefully illustrates the idea.

  • Hmm, now that I've typed all that out... Again, not a Live a user but now I'm wondering: Can Live do the above for you? Seems like it should be able to! Like, import a bunch full length stems as tracks in the Arrangement view and then automatically chop them at some bar resolution for use in the Session view.

    If so, NS should just bounce the stems with just enough meta information to make opening it in Live easy (track names, tempo info...). Then let Live do what it does. That sounds a whole hell of a lot easier to do than the moving-loop-region dance I described.

  • edited December 2018

    I suppose if Live doesn't do this, it would probably be easier for NS to go that same route. Export full stems and then in a separate process, automatically chop them up at the requested bar resolution, name and save them, and then generate the ALS package based on those names.

    This could also probably be done by a third party app by loading a zip of stems, slicing them and generating the Live package. Only 'problem' would be that it would require the user to set the tempo and time signature manually. I guess it could be extended to allow the user to import a MIDI file and then read the tempo information from there. [cough] @alexbuga probably has 80% of this code in place already. [/cough] :smirk:

    I guess that MIDI import bit would be essential if tempo and/or meter changes were to be kept intact. Come to think of it, including an export of the project's MIDI file would probably be a nice option for NS2 to add to the Zip Output option.

    Shutting up now. Sorry!

  • edited December 2018

    @Will said:
    I suppose if Live doesn't do this, it would probably be easier for NS to go that same route. Export full stems and then in a separate process, automatically chop them up at the requested bar resolution, name and save them, and then generate the ALS package based on those names.

    This could also probably be done by a third party app by loading a zip of stems, slicing them and generating the Live package. Only 'problem' would be that it would require the user to set the tempo and time signature manually. I guess it could be extended to allow the user to import a MIDI file and then read the tempo information from there. [cough] @alexbuga probably has 80% of this code in place already. [/cough] :smirk:

    I guess that MIDI import bit would be essential if tempo and/or meter changes were to be kept intact. Come to think of it, including an export of the project's MIDI file would probably be a nice option for NS2 to add to the Zip Output option.

    Shutting up now. Sorry!

    Lmao about the "shutting up" :-)

    I don`t know if ableton can do what you mention. At least automatically .

    As for the Tempo subject, in Patterning and Groovebox if i export an Ableton set and open it in Ableton the Tempo is set. You literally can press Play and it works.

    My whole problem with the way it is now is following:
    Of course i can export Stems from NS2 or any App that supports individual Track-Stems (which has nothing to do with Clips since the term "Stem" is being used in Movies and in Music production since you had the first Multitracks. Daws and "Clips" did not exist back then. Hence the term "Stem Mastering" )

    BUT. If for any reason i am tired or not 100 concentrated i have (quite a few times) imported Stems and forgot to set Tempo and then Warped them to the wrong Tempo (the Init of Ableton)
    and have lost a lot of time and Bad words have been used when this happens :-) and othes stupid similar mistakes.

    Also i noticed that i exported Stems of a NS2 Project which also used AU devices and one was COMPLETELY out of sync but not sync as in "a little" but more like 4 bars .....

    @Will , don`t worry about shutting up. Give me the info man!

  • @sirspank said:
    BUT. If for any reason i am tired or not 100 concentrated i have (quite a few times) imported Stems and forgot to set Tempo and then Warped them to the wrong Tempo (the Init of Ableton)
    and have lost a lot of time and Bad words have been used when this happens :-) and othes stupid similar mistakes.

    No need to lose time. Turn off warp for all of them, be sure to reply ”No” to the ”keep current timing”, set your tempo and turn warp back on if you need to. Or just create a new project with the correct tempo. You can also change Live’s import settings so that it doesn’t automatically warp audio files.

  • @Stiksi said:

    @sirspank said:
    BUT. If for any reason i am tired or not 100 concentrated i have (quite a few times) imported Stems and forgot to set Tempo and then Warped them to the wrong Tempo (the Init of Ableton)
    and have lost a lot of time and Bad words have been used when this happens :-) and othes stupid similar mistakes.

    No need to lose time. Turn off warp for all of them, be sure to reply ”No” to the ”keep current timing”, set your tempo and turn warp back on if you need to. Or just create a new project with the correct tempo. You can also change Live’s import settings so that it doesn’t automatically warp audio files.

    Sooner or later i will use Warp. I might do a tempo change for example to see how it sounds in different paces. Especially if i start to do serious chopping though then i will for sure activate-warp and warp things.
    This is when things get "fragile" . Once for example i warped 5 out of 7 tracks (simply forgot 2 cause i was in the flow) and when i changed Lives Tempo i was "NOOOOOOO!!!" until i calmed down and realised i can set it back.

    I might be a minority but i find Ableton Live Set Export an option that could sell an App to me for this feature alone. It is unbelievably convenient. I export it, mail it to myself from my ipad, open it in Live and it simply is there and works. You really can`t beat that with workarounds.

    As i said. I know i can do everything i like with Ableton. Been using it for 10 years now.
    That does not mean that i dont do mistakes. Its all freestlyle. ALS export is the coolest feature i`ve seen in an ios app since the first time i saw it

  • @sirspank I would love it as well.

  • Yeah, this would be very nice indeed. I don’t care if it creates individual clips in session view. It’s easy to chop up stuff if you really want to make it into clips for performing something live or whatever. On a desktop, that’s easy to do. But just getting it INTO live quickly is great. I’ve done that with a few Auxy tunes and it’s a nice workflow for sure.

  • I'm genuinely surprised Ableton doesn't have a built-in automatic method to slice arrangement clips to session mode.

    Anyway, a simple ALS export of stems with the tempo set properly and track names in place sounds like a good wish list item to me. Useful to folks and hopefully on the easy side for Matt to pull off.

    Also agree that it's an attractive feature for potential buyers. Since NS2 isn't clip based, I'd be a little concerned that folks would read "Ableton Export" in the feature list and be disappointed with the output. I guess it could say "Ableton Arrangement View Export" or something?

    @sirspank said:
    As for the Tempo subject, in Patterning and Groovebox if i export an Ableton set and open it in Ableton the Tempo is set. You literally can press Play and it works.

    Thanks but what I'm curious about with regard to tempo is more to do with tempo changes and how other apps that support both Ableton Export and tempo changes handle that (if at all).

    @Will , don`t worry about shutting up. Give me the info man!

    I've got no info to share I'm afraid! Just a penchant for filling Matt's todo list. :)

  • @Will said:
    Thanks but what I'm curious about with regard to tempo is more to do with tempo changes and how other apps that support both Ableton Export and tempo changes handle that (if at all).

    AFAIK Live needs a 3rd party addon to do tempo changes in clips. I have the addon and it is pure awesome, but if the live set export works only with clips, I don’t think tempo changes are possible.

  • edited March 6

    Maybe in V3 however? That would be absolutely sweet!

  • @Will said:
    Also agree that it's an attractive feature for potential buyers. Since NS2 isn't clip based, I'd be a little concerned that folks would read "Ableton Export" in the feature list and be disappointed with the output.

    I hadn't read this thread the first time, but I think Will's got a big point here. Although there will be ways to get clips out of NS2 and so they could be exported into a Live set, it would probably not work as the musician expects it to until NS2 actually has a clip layout, and so would confuse and disappoint.

    For example, NS2 may well store parts in a way they could be exported as audio clips (remember NS1 had this as an export option?) but they are not (as others have stated) organized into scenes.

    PS what about just bringing back the "parts" option for mixdown? It would possibly be more complex than it was with NS1 since routing is much more complex in NS2 - for example I have no idea how it could make sidechaining work - but perhaps this might make it easy?

    PPS I'd still prefer a clip launching view natively in NS2 first... pleeeeeease! :)

  • edited March 7

    The easiest way at the moment is to export stems from NS, CMD-drag them into Live so they will each create their own audio track (tracks are automatically named after the audio clip’s name) and use the ”loop selection” CMD-L, ”select loop range” SHIFT-CMD-L shortcuts and ”consolidate time to new scene” from the contextual menu to quickly create scenes. It’s actually super quick once you get the hang of it.

  • Thanks @Stiksi! Works well :) I'd like to add "drop them into Live in the arranger / song view, not the clip view! It is very quick indeed. By the way, Nanostudio has always had the best way of getting mixdowns onto a PC - thanks for that @Blip Interactive it's really appreciated.

  • @Trigger_the_Monkey said:
    Thanks @Stiksi! Works well :) I'd like to add "drop them into Live in the arranger / song view, not the clip view! It is very quick indeed. By the way, Nanostudio has always had the best way of getting mixdowns onto a PC - thanks for that @Blip Interactive it's really appreciated.

    Yes, that’s a very good point!

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