Small sound test - ModelD vs. Obsidian

edited December 2018 in General chat

Just for fun tried to match Model D patch in Obsidian as close as possible..

I think result is very interesting if we take in accout that Obsidian can handle 16 poly voices, with fraction of CPU load of Model
D (it means you can easy layer 4 instances of Obsidian for huge polyfonic sounds)

There is few sweeps and short sequences, always played Obsidian and Model D..

https://www.dropbox.com/s/s1mp8lsr7zvs9yq/ModelD_vs_Obsidian.wav?dl=0

even more interestig it is if some FX are applied (which is usually the case when sound is used withing track)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/58xxv4o5jsdghbj/ModelD_vs_Obsidian(fx).wav?dl=0

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Comments

  • That’s interesting. Thanks.

    Would you be able to share the Obsidian preset(s)?

    I’ve been trying to get it to sound as Moogy as possible, but I think you’ve got further than me!

  • here patch ;)

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/z84ounw1s6k2uje/AYER BASS.zip?dl=0

    will try to reproduce more of them later..

  • Brilliant. Thanks so much @dendy

  • Doing something like this has been becoming a fun learning experience lately. While composing I’ll often grab external sounds I’m already familiar with because it’s easier to keep the creative flow going. But as things start to gel, or I get temporarily stuck, I’ll pick one of those sounds and do my best to create it in Obsidian. Generally I’ll start oscillator by oscillator, filter by filter, modulator by modulator ... until I get as close to the other patch as I can. Once there I remove the other app.

    I’ve been pretty successful and had a lot of fun so far.

  • edited December 2018

    Yeah same motivation here :-) Of course you never get 1:1, that's obviously not possible, but if it works in mix after applying fxs together with lot of other tracks, why not ...

    Plus it means saving a LOT of CPU to recreate it in Obsidian :lol:

    I just wish to have time machine :-) I would then return back it time and use some techniques in Obsidian which indiscovered just lately during such challeges for factory presets i made :)

  • That’s a pretty nice, thick analog patch you shared. Thanks again. Particularly nice with some delay added, as you say.

  • edited December 2018

    Nice...but....Model D just has that much better resonance and drive if you turn up the gain.
    Also these presets are of course "standard" and most synth with analog filters can do quite the same.
    Where Model D screams and it´s the best sounding synth on iOS by far (and even in general in some sweet spots) is if you go really wild.
    But in a huge mix with a lot of sounds Model D would even be too "big" and Obsidian might the better one. But there is that unbeatable growl and grind (in a musical way) and the saturation on Model D is just outstanding. There seems also a huge difference in terms of levels for me. While most synths peaks like hell with too much saturation and you almost loose half of the harmonics after normalize or compress the shit out of it, Model D seems so much more dynamic than any other iOS synth i heard yet. Worth every CPU hit for me. And 4 voices with MPE is something as well. We didn´t have to talk about audio rate stuff again too :)
    Then there is something in the envelopes which are a lot more snappy in Model D.
    I mean Obsidian is superb but it´s not a Minimoog....not even close.
    But it´s also the complete analog package. The bender and delay in Model D are outstanding as well and has that analog flavor no other iOS delay has. All these really shines if you play it live with velociy sensitive presets etc. It just pronounce all the nuances.
    I would like to hear a really smooth brass ala´ Minimoog with Obsidian. I could post an example....challenge accepted? Maybe someone prove me (happily) wrong.

  • edited December 2018

    @Cinebient

    Model D just has that much better resonance and drive if you turn up the gain.

    Yeah of course. My goal was not tomproof thst Obsidian can replace Model D. Just that it can sound lot closer than some people think ;-)

    But on other side wondering nobody noticed that issue in Model D on biggest resonance in some speciffic filter position.. in my example aroud 0:10 .... obviously some bug in implementation, lots of aliasing and shit there :-)

    Then there is something in the envelopes which are a lot more snappy in Model

    Disagree with this, exact opposite in my opinion ;-) Obsidian have lot more sharp snappy envelopes... i think actually more than most of iOS synths which are not primary aimed for drum synthesis...

    I would like to hear a really smooth brass ala´ Minimoog with Obsidian. I could post an example....

    Yeah, challenge accepted. But if possible put also screenshot with patch settings from Model D app ;-)

  • edited December 2018

    Oh and just to clear things up, while i think Model D (and other iOS synths as well) are king for certain sounds within it´s sweet spots i also would say Obsidian is the best iOS synth ever.
    Only Alchemy was more amazing in terms of morphing sounds and stuff but the good old app doesn´t work past iOS 10 and it was more a player with some good editing options rather than the full engine.
    So hell, Obsidian IS the freaking best synth out there for iOS today!!
    And as we know we can sample into it as well :)
    Call me crazy but it´s actually the only synth i would buy an iPad for to record it into Logic (which i still might prefer for full tracks and workflow). Only Beepstreet´s Drumbo would be the other thing which i think will be indeed a game changer for iOS as well since it even kicks some (or a lot) desktop modulars. Beepstreet´s DSP is for me the best out there (and even on par with the U-he guys).

  • I'm also experimenting with using multisamples of oscillator waves from my analogue synths, loaded to obsidian sample oscillator - and some very interesting results are going out ...

    Now i got idea to sample MD's oscillators with various settings and create multisample based patches in Obsidian... lot of fun :-)

    btw i was never big fan of Model D, even HW... there are other things which i'm
    missing on iOS .. for example Microwave XT - literally nothing is even remotely comparable to it's FM modulation applied on wavetables.... magic orange box :-)

  • Oh just realized i didn't mentioned, although it is probably obvious, in my example it starts with model d, then obsidian, then again model D, then again obsidian, and so on...

  • edited December 2018

    What i can´t test myself yet (since i´m away from an iPad) is how the range is in Obsidian.
    F.e. some synths are limited to 7 (or +-1) octaves while other synths offers a frequency (and modulation) range about 10 or more octaves.
    Might i ask how far Obsidian can go. I mean not transpose but from the lowest possible frequency (useful mainly if you can use OSC as LFO) to the inaudible highs (especially here most synths falls apart and very useful for some rich harmonics if use with resonance and saturation).
    This range f.e. is very useful for extreme rich and dense organ and string sounds like modeling huge church organs. Zeeon is great here f.e.

  • edited December 2018

    pianoroll range is from C-2 to G8 ... but of course because Obsidian does not use audio rate modulation in extreme settings you can reach some boundaries :)

    useful mainly if you can use OSC as LFO

    you cannot use OSC as mod source

    btw. did another “model d emulation”

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/l034tiqazmv1ob8/ModelD_vs_Obsidian2.wav?dl=0

  • edited December 2018

    @dendy said:
    pianoroll range is from C-2 to G8 ... but of course because Obsidian does not use audio rate modulation in extreme settings you can reach some boundaries :)

    useful mainly if you can use OSC as LFO

    you cannot use OSC as mod source

    btw. did another “model d emulation”

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/l034tiqazmv1ob8/ModelD_vs_Obsidian2.wav?dl=0

    I don´t talk about the midi keyboard range. I mean f.e. if you play the highest possible key, can you still turn the pitch up. The same for the lowest midi note. Can you still turn the frequency further down inside the synth settings. So you hear the whole range. I don´t talk about audio rate stuff here but also you could have in general a much wider range than just the keyboard allows.
    I just ask why many synths seems to have a limit where you can´t go higher in frequency (or lower) at a certain point. Some synths go just slowly into the inaudible high range or so slow that the OSC just cycles/beating just every 10-20 seconds trough the waveform.
    While there are workarounds via some wavetables and other stuff f.e. it´s very easy and fast to set up some amazing strings or organs if you just use a simple saw and turn the octave up 1, 2 or 3 for each OSC. Now if you layer this up across 10 octaves or more with several Obsidian instances (which mind sound silly) there is a kind of full and rich sounds you will only get with this range.
    Of course that is also not a Minimoog territory.
    I also found the Minimoog always just boring and it is a pretty simply synth but with polyphony and added FX in software like Model D, The Legend, Monark etc. it is another game.
    But a big plus for Obsidian that it offer some FX with modulations which is even more important for me than hyper great filters these days (since nearly all decent synths offers good ones).

  • @Cinebient

    ok looks like this is lowest and hoghest possible
    tone of Obsidian :-)

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/joew6eweqgjxo7h/high_low.zip?dl=0

  • @dendy said:
    @Cinebient

    ok looks like this is lowest and hoghest possible
    tone of Obsidian :-)

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/joew6eweqgjxo7h/high_low.zip?dl=0

    Thank´s! That´s a pretty great range. Matt seems to be a genius to let it all stay so low on cpu.

  • To my ears, I knew the first one was Model D and the second Obsidian. I mean, I've been a synth head for 15 years, so of course that'll be an unfair advantage in determining which is which given Model D has a slightly meatier sound. However, Obsidian is at the very least 99% close to it, and if you were to put both synths in your standard 8-bar loop (one playing for four bars, and the other playing for the other four bars) with other instruments/drums, even I may not be able to tell the difference in sonic quality! Really, the only major difference would be how much CPU is used.

    Well done Dendy! :smiley: Looking forward to what else you come up with here.

  • Might i also ask (sorry for all these questions and really a big thank´s for the support) how much you can pitch bend since f.e. some doesn´t offer enough range if you play it with a Seaboard and can you set up/down with different values?
    So far Obsidian is indeed such an amazing piece of software.
    I wonder what is the oldest/cheapest iPad NS2 runs. I guess it must be iOS 11?

  • edited December 2018

    @Cinebient
    ask whatever you want, i'm happy to answer your questions if i know answer :-)

    regarding pitchbend - theoretically you can map
    it to +/- 120 semitones, but of course there is limit what really engine can play (so even if you set max range to pitchbend, obviously if you play note c-2 you cannot pitch it down to -120 semitones)

    however, higher ranges sounds like there is some kind of "stepping" - i guess this is result of some cpu optimalisation - it is obvious that this brutal CPU efficiency costs some price in more extreme settings ..

    here i recorded various pitchbend variants (+/- 12 semitones, then 24, 36, 48,60)

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/tqbdshqh80k57ok/pitchbend.zip?dl=0

  • @dendy said:
    @Cinebient
    ask whatever you want, i'm happy to answer your questions if i know answer :-)

    regarding pitchbend - theoretically you can map
    it to +/- 120 semitones, but of course there is limit what really engine can play (so even if you set max range to pitchbend, obviously if you play note c-2 you cannot pitch it down to -120 semitones)

    however, higher ranges sounds like there is some kind of "stepping" - i guess this is result of some cpu optimalisation - it is obvious that this brutal CPU efficiency costs some price in more extreme settings ..

    here i recorded various pitchbend variants (+/- 12 semitones, then 24, 36, 48,60)

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/tqbdshqh80k57ok/pitchbend.zip?dl=0

    Nice. I just asked because the some synths needs to bet set up with pitchbend -48/+48 to work right with the Seaboard Rise. Some synths end just at 24. So another big plus and great thought out for Obsidian here. Even a lot desktop synths suck in this field.
    But why the hell do you answer all my silly question on Christmas. You´re a real synth geek man :)

  • There’s just no way to get the full sound of the Moog apps from Obsidian.

    Obsidian isn’t a Moog emulator. It’s like tofu. It’s a base upon which to build a tasty sound. Moog Model D and Model 15 are meant to emulate those specific analog machines.

    That said, Obsidian can get almost close enough to fool you in a mix, and it can do some other stuff that the Moog apps cannot.

    I don’t prefer Obsidian to the Moog synth apps. I’m very glad that both are available in iOS.

  • Yah yah nice nice, so can we get a cool preset pack to buy please? ;)

  • real synth geek

    that's meee :-))

    plus wife&son are already sleeping, so what i should
    so ? Playing with NS :-))

    plus i'm my personal feelings related to these holidays are near zero :lol:

  • @dendy said:

    real synth geek

    that's meee :-))

    plus wife&son are already sleeping, so what i should
    so ? Playing with NS :-))

    plus i'm my personal feelings related to these holidays are near zero :lol:

    Absynth Original.....lol....beware.....i know what it can do :)

  • that is 12 years old bottle ! I bought it at my wedding, now it's too old to open it :-)))

  • Comparisons are by nature invidious and this is no different. I think Obsidian’s strengths are more as a hybrid synth/9sampler than solely as a virtual analog synth - it’s too clinical, and the filter does not have a pronounced character. I suspect that this is intentional and that’s fine.

  • @Audiogus said:
    Yah yah nice nice, so can we get a cool preset pack to buy please? ;)

    Just need finish my minibrute/sh02/se02/volca/electribe based patch bank and then i will jump on this :-)

  • edited December 2018

    @dendy said:
    @Cinebient
    ask whatever you want, i'm happy to answer your questions if i know answer :-)

    regarding pitchbend - theoretically you can map
    it to +/- 120 semitones, but of course there is limit what really engine can play (so even if you set max range to pitchbend, obviously if you play note c-2 you cannot pitch it down to -120 semitones)

    however, higher ranges sounds like there is some kind of "stepping" - i guess this is result of some cpu optimalisation - it is obvious that this brutal CPU efficiency costs some price in more extreme settings ..

    here i recorded various pitchbend variants (+/- 12 semitones, then 24, 36, 48,60)

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/tqbdshqh80k57ok/pitchbend.zip?dl=0

    Hi @dendy

    Would you be able to step me through how I can assign a +-48 pitch bend range to midi notes coming into Obsidean? I need this to enable my Roli Lightblock’s pitch bend to work properly. And so far I haven’t worked out how to do this (pitchbend in Obsidean seems stuck at +-3). So any help much appreciated.

    Matt

  • edited December 2018

    @MattFletcher2000

    it’s +/- 2 by default (init patch)

    just go to mod matrix page, locate “pitch wheel” source, it’s by default routed to “Osc All: Coarse Tune” with amout “2”. Change it to 48 ;)

  • @dendy said:
    @MattFletcher2000

    it’s +/- 2 by default (init patch)

    just go to mod matrix page, locate “pitch wheel” source, it’s by default routed to “Osc All: Coarse Tune” with amout “2”. Change it to 48 ;)

    Brilliant. Thanks!

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