Project tracks silent on second loading

edited January 9 in Support

I have a repeatable issue with a NS2 project; if I load the project it is ok. If I load another project and then come back to the first one, the tracks are silent but the meters move on all panels icluding the mixer. It only happens with one project that happens to have 30 tracks, many of which contain Autony midi plugin. Has anyone else had an issue where audio does not sound after loading a project the second time, even though meters are moving?

Comments

  • I haven't run into this but I don't own Autony.

    Just to verify... when you say repeatable, you mean that you can get this to happen (load, load another, load again == silent) every time NS is restarted? And it's only this one project?

    Do you have other projects using Autony that doesn't have this issue? If so, I wonder if there's some other AU plugin loaded that is actually the source of the problem. Could try removing them one by one and doing a Save As to see if it's possible to narrow it down.

    If possible, could you attach an NSA of your project here? Maybe someone else (or Matt) with Autony can investigate the problem if they have your project.

  • Autony is a midi only AU, it doesn’t output any sound. So it see,s likely that it’s another plugin that does have audio ... or not.

  • @toneman If such thing happens, is meter on "OUT" chanel (right chanel which is always visible) moving too ? If not, then can you double check if some parent track isn muted or it's volume fader is turned all way down ?

    I had issue with some plugin during beta - this plugin was sending midi CC value 7 - which is by default mapped to mixer volume fader - it set volume fader always to some speciffic value - so wondering it this could be such kind of issue..

    Anyway, everything what @Will wrote .. example project with issue would be very helpful

  • Talkies-2 is the one that has this problem. Doesn’t matter what order things happen (load, load another, reload) and yes, the master meter is always running, as are all the little meters too.

  • I was hoping this happened to someone else, before going in and deleting one track at a time...

  • I have seen something like this but I haven’t been able to replicate and it only happened maybe 3 times since I’ve had NS2. So you’re not crazy @toneman ;)

  • edited January 9

    @anickt Hm.. any idea about something which can possibly connect all those cases ? Maybe it happend after you restored app from background, or switched to some other app and back to NS, or you used some particual AU plugin .. or something which should help catch this bug ...

  • I’ve tried opening and closing NS2 and different sequences of operations. One thing I noticed is that once this happens, I can go back and reopen the other projects and they always play properly. Only the one Talkies-2 is always silent after the first time. I must then close NS2 and reopen it to get Talkies-2 to play again, and it will always play until I load something else.

  • @dendy said:
    @anickt Hm.. any idea about something which can possibly connect all those cases ? Maybe it happend after you restored app from background, or switched to some other app and back to NS, or you used some particual AU plugin .. or something which should help catch this bug ...

    If it happens again I’ll convey whatever info I can. Haven’t seen it enough to get a handle on it and haven’t been able to make it happen.

  • Aparillo ! I bet this is caused by Aparillo.. aparillo can cause also other issues (like freezing during export).. please try remove all Aparrilo instances from "Talkies-2" , save it as new and then try if problem disappears ...

  • OK here you go. Two instances of DRC. No sound from Track 2 even if I change patches. Track 3 seems to be working normally. A restart fixed it. But then started it up again and no sound from Track 2. Also noticed that changing patches from the NS list changes the patch in the DRC list but changing patches in the DRC list does not change the patch chosen in the NS list.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/2g9gp5ltu8mtxqp/ DRC2 issue.nsa?dl=0

  • OK here you go. Two instances of DRC.

    :+1:

    changing patches in the DRC list does not change the patch chosen in the NS list.

    I think this is normal behavour with all AUs, not sure if AU reports back to host patch change in internal patch browser - i just know that AU reports to host list of own patches but i think that's all - switching patches is one way host->plugin communication (at least based on my knowledge)

    Anyway, great you found what caused this :) Now it would be very good to report it to DRC dev (i think he is active on AB forums, cannot remember name), he will probably contact Matt in case he will need some support with solving this - my bet's are that this needs to be solved at DRC side not NS side (of course i may be wrong)

  • edited January 9

    Ahh look.. they are already discussing it on AB forums :)

    https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/30702/drc-update-produces-a-hard-crack-and-then-disables-audio#latest

    @toneman it is possible that you have DRC in your problematic project too ?

  • @dendy said:
    Ahh look.. they are already discussing it on AB forums :)

    https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/30702/drc-update-produces-a-hard-crack-and-then-disables-audio#latest

    @toneman it is possible that you have DRC in your problematic project too ?

    I’m not getting any loud pop/crack however. But it may be related.

  • More stuff with DRC
    Seems to work fine with one instance. Add a second and one of them will eventually go silent, usually when changing patches during playback. Also, NS2 does not see the different categories of patches other than the main factory bank. The others can be chosen in the AU but the patch name doesn’t show up in the track header or anywhere else (mixer etc.)

  • edited January 9

    Also, NS2 does not see the different categories of patches other than the main factory bank.

    Do you have any other DAW where you can check if it is same ? I guess it will be same, but better to check it.

    Reason is, that sometimes plugins does not report complete patch list to host app, in some cases plugin doesn't report ANY patches to host app at all (bs16i, kronecker, zeeon, ...) ... it depends on plugin implementation..

    Anyway if in other host (Cubasis, AUM - anything other than NS what you have and what displays AU plugin patches) it shows ALL patches and in NS just some, then it is obviously some issue in NS patch librarian territory :)

    The others can be chosen in the AU but the patch name doesn’t show up in the track header or anywhere else (mixer etc.)

    Yeah, this is because if you change patch inside AU, host App doesn't know about which specific patch from plugin's internal patch browser was set ... Plugin just notifies host app about parameters change, it sends (usually) to host app set of new parameters values.

  • @dendy said:

    Also, NS2 does not see the different categories of patches other than the main factory bank.

    Do you have any other DAW where you can check if it is same ? I guess it will be same, but better to check it.

    Reason is, that sometimes plugins does not report complete patch list to host app, in some cases plugin doesn't report ANY patches to host app at all (bs16i, kronecker, zeeon, ...) ... it depends on plugin implementation..

    Anyway if in other host (Cubasis, AUM - anything other than NS what you have and what displays AU plugin patches) it shows ALL patches and in NS just some, then it is obviously some issue in NS patch librarian territory :)

    The others can be chosen in the AU but the patch name doesn’t show up in the track header or anywhere else (mixer etc.)

    Yeah, this is because if you change patch inside AU, host App doesn't know about which specific patch from plugin's internal patch browser was set ... Plugin just notifies host app about parameters change, it sends (usually) to host app set of new parameters values.

    I think I’m just going to stick with Obsidian and Slate. :o
    These kinds of hassles are what made me mainly use Caustic. I’m happy with what NS2 can do so I’m not going to bother with AU synths other than the @brambos apps which have never given me any issues. It’s just not worth the time to troubleshoot these things. There are a few AU FX that I like and have had no problems with but even there I find myself leaning more toward in-built FX.

  • edited January 9

    yeah, Bram is superhero of AU :-) His plugins are rock solid, great sounding and cpu friendly, if i use some external plugin in my NS project, usually it is Bram's stuff :-)

    Anyway thanks for your effort while investigating this issue !

  • @dendy said:
    Aparillo ! I bet this is caused by Aparillo.. aparillo can cause also other issues (like freezing during export).. please try remove all Aparrilo instances from "Talkies-2" , save it as new and then try if problem disappears ...

    Yes - removing all Aparillo tracks (3 of them) fixed the problem!

    I don’t have DRC.

    Dang! I really like Aparillo too...

  • @toneman said:

    @dendy said:
    Aparillo ! I bet this is caused by Aparillo.. aparillo can cause also other issues (like freezing during export).. please try remove all Aparrilo instances from "Talkies-2" , save it as new and then try if problem disappears ...

    Yes - removing all Aparillo tracks (3 of them) fixed the problem!

    I don’t have DRC.

    Dang! I really like Aparillo too...

    I know your pain.

    PS/troll: it is working OK in BM3 ;)

  • @Audiogus said:

    PS/troll: it is working OK in BM3 ;)

    Ok, thanks. If it’s working in other daws, then I guess it’s a bug (?)

  • @toneman said:

    @Audiogus said:

    PS/troll: it is working OK in BM3 ;)

    Ok, thanks. If it’s working in other daws, then I guess it’s a bug (?)

    Could still be a bug or ‘bug’ in the AU itself though... sounds like there is just general flakey standards / bad documentation plaguing aspects of the Apple iOS/AU thing. I am just a forum goon/parrot though and should probably be mostly ignored in most cases.

  • @Audiogus said:

    Dang! I really like Aparillo too...

    I know your pain.

    PS/troll: it is working OK in BM3 ;)

    hm... not trolling, important information ! thx

  • @Audiogus said:

    @toneman said:

    @Audiogus said:

    PS/troll: it is working OK in BM3 ;)

    Ok, thanks. If it’s working in other daws, then I guess it’s a bug (?)

    Could still be a bug or ‘bug’ in the AU itself though... sounds like there is just general flakey standards / bad documentation plaguing aspects of the Apple iOS/AU thing. I am just a forum goon/parrot though and should probably be mostly ignored in most cases.

    Yep. From what I understand, pretty much every app that hosts AUs has a series of hacks in place to mask problems in the AUs themselves. Some of it down to genuine bugs in specific AUs and some down to general AU teething problems that some of the plugins have (we can mostly thank Apple documentation shortcomings for those).

  • @anickt said:
    I think I’m just going to stick with Obsidian and Slate. :o
    These kinds of hassles are what made me mainly use Caustic. I’m happy with what NS2 can do so I’m not going to bother with AU synths other than the @brambos apps which have never given me any issues. It’s just not worth the time to troubleshoot these things. There are a few AU FX that I like and have had no problems with but even there I find myself leaning more toward in-built FX.

    Same here. With limited play time, avoiding this sort of stuff is exactly why I've been excited about NS in the first place.

    It can feel like a waste of money but basically as soon as some plugin does something goofy twice, we're done.

  • @Will said:
    It can feel like a waste of money but basically as soon as some plugin does something goofy twice, we're done.

    With the AUv3 flakiness going on, you must break up with a lot of plugins these days... Hopefully, you take them out to a nice dinner first... ;)

  • edited January 13

    @toneman said:

    @Will said:
    It can feel like a waste of money but basically as soon as some plugin does something goofy twice, we're done.

    With the AUv3 flakiness going on, you must break up with a lot of plugins these days... Hopefully, you take them out to a nice dinner first... ;)

    Yep. Then, once the pie comes, I say "I just want to make sure you understand it's not me, it's you."

    Honestly, it means I rarely buy apps anymore. I've had wayyyyy more than I need for years now anyway.

  • At least they get pie!

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