Obsidian - User Wavetables?

What an absolutely fantastic synth! ...and I've just barely scratched the surface.

(so, not to look a gifthorse in the mouth or anyting... but...)
simply wondering: has there been any mention of user wavetables in the offing? The ones it comes with are wonderful, don't get me wrong. It would be very exciting to be able to create wavetables from samples or at the very least from wavetable software like Waveedit or Audioterm.

Comments

  • It’s been discussed but there is no solid plan that has been revealed. Priorities are: iPhone (iPad Pro optimization), Audio Tracks, and something I’m forgetting. After that... I’m betting there will be lots of fun things.

  • Aha, thanks. I was just curious more than anything.

    There's definitely more than enough to work with as it is. I work with several other wavetable synths with which wavetable import is crucial - but those don't have such a wide array of oscillator types, so this is really a different beast altogether.

  • @palm yeah that would be dedinitely great feature.. I would like such possibility a much :-) So maybe one day.

  • edited December 2018

    It's not the same but you can create a "wavetable" as a regular sample file and then automate the sample start and loop length parameters. You can find those in the Mod Matrix.

    I can't recall which off the top of my head but note that when you assign one (or the other?) to a macro you'll want to assign it with an "amount" value of "-100".

  • That actually sounds like a fun challenge. That one goes on the ever lengthening list of things to explore in NS2.

  • @Will said:
    It's not the same but you can create a "wavetable" as a regular sample file and then automate the sample start and loop length parameters. You can find those in the Mod Matrix.

    I can't recall which off the top of my head but note that when you assign one (or the other?) to a macro you'll want to assign it with an "amount" value of "-100".

    nice, thanks for the tip!

  • edited December 2018

    @palm

    but if you modulate sample start, be sure that you set some small attack time for Amp envelope (let's say 10 ms - but now i remember it is there probably by default in init patch) to avoid "clicks" when you set sample position at place where it doesn't start with zero value

  • @SlapHappy said:
    It’s been discussed but there is no solid plan that has been revealed. Priorities are: iPhone (iPad Pro optimization), Audio Tracks, and something I’m forgetting. After that... I’m betting there will be lots of fun things.

    Convolution reverb IAP

  • @Stiksi Thanks!!! I supose that me forgetting that shows just how much I overlook FX. 🙁

  • @Stiksi said:
    Convolution reverb IAP

    so stoked for this one!!!

  • I’d even take some wavetable IAP packs, in fact would probably prefer it as it would potentially help fund NS2 and also spare me the trouble of finding and importing wavetables myself.

  • @boom said:
    I’d even take some wavetable IAP packs, in fact would probably prefer it as it would potentially help fund NS2 and also spare me the trouble of finding and importing wavetables myself.

    +100

  • edited August 12

    btw. not sure if anybody is aware but you can use sample start / loop start mappi to macro knob in Obsidian and you get kind of "user wavetable".. of course it has some limitations (you don't have smooth transitions between waves in wavetable and if you automate this position you can get clicks) - but for use cases it works

    this method works best with mono waves, not that good with stereo !

    How to :

    • create your watetable - basically it means copy exactly 100 waves one after one into single file
    • load this wave file to obsidian sampler
    • open that wave in audio editor, select first 1/100 part of that sampel (if you have single cycle waveforms, then select just first cycle [*] ), and in actions > set sustain loop, save file
    • create in mod matrix 2 mappings -[knob 8] -> [ Osc1 > Sample start] and [kbob 8] -> [Osc1 > Loop start] (so sme marcro kbob is controlling both sample start and loop start)

    Now, when you play sample, just first selected cycle is looped and using macro knob you can switch to other cycles, so basically loop through this "wavetable" .. why is ideal to use exactly 100 waves in this wavetable file ? Because macro knob goes from 0 to 100, one step == 1/100 part of whole file .. so this way you will switch exactly from one cycle to another


    [*] There is smal issue when you use just really single cycle waveforms (looped) in sampler - at higher octaves it can go quiet - this is because of during upsampling region to be played becomed too short .. way to avoid this is to copy each cycle multiple times - lets say 10x same sine wave, then 10x same saw wave, etc etc etc - repeat until you fill all 100 wavetables

    If you want to have shorter wave table - lets say with just 5 different waves - then copy 20x first wave, then 20x second, then 20x third,.. etc etc ... now Macro kno will play first one in range 0-19, second one in range 20-39, third one 40...59, .. etc etc

  • edited August 14

    @WinConway said:
    If the macro dial goes 0/100 you need 101 cycles, this would make sense, all dials have to be an odd number or they can never have a centre position.

    ok, in reality it's somewhere between .. haven't opportunity to ask Matt how exactly is 0..100 macro value recalculated to sample frame value but from user's point of view it's not exact science (there is done some interpolation / rounding so this method is never 100% sample accurate, there is a bit "randomness" involved when you are trying to set it)

    as i said it's not real wavetable replacement, it's just nice trick to get some aspect of custom wavetables but definitely it has some limits (for example clicks when loop start is modulated - there is no zero value smoothing) ..

    for example when i created wave where i copied 50x one cycle and 50x other cycle, then at macro value 48 it was playing fully first wave, at 49 it was somewhere between 1/2 and 50+ was playing second wave - even if macro knob was set to 100, which in my understanding sound play nothing (because 100 == 100% of wave file, it means end).. maybe i shoud copy 51x first wave and 49x second one ? or 51x both ? Didn't tried those combinations ..

    In general - it's good for experimenting when one accepts a bit of randomness in this method .. not 1:1 mathematically exact thing

    Also when you use sample offset automation for "audio tracks workaround" [*], it works perfectly let's say for waves 8 bars long, or even 16 bars long, but it starts break apart for longer audio, for example 32bars long recording- it's simply because of rounding when 0..100 values are recalculated to real sample frame position ...

    Wait, if you are using the sampler, surely the cycles also need to be a set number of samples too, so that they are in the right root key, because it is just samples, not a real wavetable ?

    I'm not exactly sure how this works, can ask Matt after he returns from vacation, but in general i think it works like this :

    • let's say you set sample start to 45
    • it gets sample as is (without transposing/pitching), calculates where is place 45% from it's beginning
    • then like internally "trims" sample from this place
    • now it upsamples or downsamples it based on which key you pressed and plays it

    So it really doesn't matter what sample rate is that wave file using, how much frames is "per cycle" - it simply recalculates percentual value of start offset to real sample frame value ...


    [*] like you load long wave into obsidian, let's say exactly 8 bars long wave, then in sequencer instead of 8 bars long single note you draw sequence of short 16th notes - where this sequence is exactly 8 bars long, and you draw linear sample start automation from zero to 100%, again exactly 8 bars long - it's plays wave perfectly, no matter where you jump with playhead it starts play from that position).

  • edited August 14

    back from offtopic to ontopic - i definitely agree that custom wavetable import would be very cool .. or in perfect world, where exits 2 or 3 Matts involved in NS development, some build-in wavetable creator tool inside NS2, that would be damn.. yes, i have also my dreams about NS :lol:

  • @WinConway said:
    So the sample playback in Obsidian isnt sample playback in that case, but it must be, because it wants a key in the file name

    The key in the filename thing is so Obsidian knows where to set the root key of a particular sample in a multi-sample patch.

  • @WinConway said:

    @Will said:

    @WinConway said:
    So the sample playback in Obsidian isnt sample playback in that case, but it must be, because it wants a key in the file name

    The key in the filename thing is so Obsidian knows where to set the root key of a particular sample in a multi-sample patch.

    Yes exactly, which means if you create these faux wavetables, they need to be in a particular key as stated in the file name, or they will be in the wrong key when played back.

    Yep. The length of the waveform will determine the root note. I use the Adventure Kid single cycle waves a lot. Always have to tune them manually. Thankfully, that's a lot easier in NS2 than it was in NS1 since there are multiple oscillators. I set one OSC to SAW or something, press a note and then tune the single cycle wave (sample OSC) by ear while the SAW just rings. Once tuned, disable the SAW osc. In NS1, you had to setup a separate tuning track to do this.

    Would be the same with a custom faux-wavetable sample. For it to work, you'd want to make sure any samples you strung together into the faux-wavetable sample were all the same wavelength. Then you can tune the lot all at once to whatever root note it's supposed to be. Don't think there's really a way around this because math.

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