Oscillator phase reset on note on (retriger) in Obsidian

Hi, short question. Is oscillator phase reset with every new note? Is there any setting to switch such behavior on/off?

Best,
Jakub

Comments

  • edited July 2019

    Yes, by default scillator is phase synced (eg every new voice starts with same phase) ..

    You cannot disable oscillator phase "reset" (i guess you want to get continuous running oscillators like on old analog synths), but you can get basically same effect, if you force oscillator to start with random phase instead of phase synced.

    To get random phase at start, you need to do little trick with mod matrix - just set mod source Key > Rand 1 and target Osc > Phase .. now every new note (or better every nev VOICE - so for example also if you enable unison that it is applied for every unison voice) starts with random phase ...

  • @dendy said:
    To get random phase at start, you need to do little trick with mod matrix - just set mod source Key > Rand 1 and target Osc > Phase .. now every new note (or better every nev VOICE - so for example also if you enable unison that it is applied for every unison voice) starts with random phase ...

    I have this routing in my default Obsidian patch, so it’s automatically on when I create a new Obsidian track. Super useful.

  • Than you for your answer Dandy. I really like this approach. Cheers!

  • In fact I wanted to try doing something just opposite - generic psytrance bass precisely tuned with the kick. I am not a keen of KBBB pattern, but i treat it as an exercise.

  • ha psytrance, that's my area :-)

    for this you actually need oscillator in it's default stage - phase synced.. use just single oscillstor - saw, 12LPA filter with a bit overdrive, apply filter envelope with low sstsin and short decay
    phase synced oscillator is better for basses, unsynced oscillators are better for leads and pads...

    Additionally if you want something like "Zyce" bass which is more percussive, use for oscillator Wavetable > Complex > Hum with position knob all way to left (i made this waverable specially for this kind of bass, it's hidden gem for progressive psytrance bass :))

    In factory check pathes "Bass Foundation" - that is classic fullon bass build with saw and "Bass Barista" which is zyce-like progressive percussive bass build with hum wavetable

  • Thanks for the great tips!

  • edited July 2019

    I am basing my kick od Psy kick 1, but can't figure out why every hit in tact sounds different, like not every control signal is resetting with the new note. In attachments "song" and exported kick patch if you Dendy have a moment to look at it, as I have no clue what is "animating" the kick, as every one instance should be the same.

    Best!

  • edited July 2019

    hard to explain.. this is deeper technical issue related to optimalisations .. it's caused by very short attack in combination with long buffer size..

    Best way is to mixdown one hit and then load it as sample into Slate...

    Btw i think when you mixdown sequence, it should be OK too, or at least there should be significanlty less instabilities in kick envelope.. anyway micdown one hit -> put it as sample to slate is always best way how to deal with percussive, and especially sharp kick sounds synthestised in Obsidian.

    Another advantage is that in Slate you can again apply pitch envelope on that sample and shape it even more .. or load it back to Obsidian into sample oscillator and apply more pitch shaping there + layer it with sine on low octave for more low end..

    That is how i actually created kick drums in "Trance 1" and "Trance 2" factory Slate drumkits - they are result of multiple resampling ;)

  • Thanks for explanation

  • edited July 24

    @dendy said:
    hard to explain.. this is deeper technical issue related to optimalisations .. it's caused by very short attack in combination with long buffer size..

    Best way is to mixdown one hit and then load it as sample into Slate...

    Btw i think when you mixdown sequence, it should be OK too, or at least there should be significanlty less instabilities in kick envelope.. anyway micdown one hit -> put it as sample to slate is always best way how to deal with percussive, and especially sharp kick sounds synthestised in Obsidian.

    Another advantage is that in Slate you can again apply pitch envelope on that sample and shape it even more .. or load it back to Obsidian into sample oscillator and apply more pitch shaping there + layer it with sine on low octave for more low end..

    That is how i actually created kick drums in "Trance 1" and "Trance 2" factory Slate drumkits - they are result of multiple resampling ;)

    I spent 5hrs yesterday trying to recreate the "Kick Trance 3" sample from "Trance 1". I love it. good combination of punch,pop and phatness.
    Surprised to stumble on this today and see the actual creator talking about it.
    if not any trouble could you briefly explain how I might recreate it for learning purposes ?
    or even just any tips ?
    so far I have a sine on osc1 transpose: -36
    LP 12-A filter just using the drive on 50% and output on +6.0 dB
    pitch env- type:AD level:57% D:148ms
    amp en- type:AD level:100% D:164ms break:100% D2:100ms

    ill try what you said about exporting it then layering with another sine...
    makes me think my patch is on a too low of an octave..

  • edited July 24

    @boingboing

    I don'r remember exact stepsor settings, but in general

    • i didn't used any filters for kicks, just pitch modulation (pitch envelope)
    • usually i made first approximate kick with long decay (release), with not that sharp transient
    • then i resampled it and loaded back into obsidian into sample oscillator, and again applied pitch envelope (different one)
    • sometimes i repeadet this even third time ;)

    VERY important when you use Obsidian for drum sounds synthesis (eg. sounds with short sharp decay), there is huge difference how it sounds (i mean realtime playback) with very low and high buffer. This has something to do with CPU optimalisation - with high buffer transient may sounds not that goos. That is why it always makes sense to resample it (offline rendering sounds basically same way as "very low" buffer setting) - it's good for sound design phase switch to very low buffer just to hear how it will really sound after rendering.

  • edited October 2

    @dendy
    Hey! Thanks heaps for that.
    I managed to get pretty close (to my unskilled ears) with only the obsidian.

    but Even on very low buffer each of my percussion start to sound different after more than one sequenced.
    I don't want to render the synth hits to wav because I want to be able to automate them.

    This issue with the sounds changing each time and being way off when on high buffer..
    is this a Nano studio issue ?
    Do any apps or daws have consistent synth behavior for drum hits with very short decays...actually seekbeats comes to mind...

  • @boingboing have you considered rendering your hit to audio and then using that sample in Obsidian? It depends on the type of automation you want to use, but it can be very flexible.

    I've even taken a complete rendered track, loaded it as a sample in Obisidian, modulated the pitch of that sample with a LFO (and added a second oscillator for white noise hiss) and made a simple tape warble effect for the track. That was huge fun B) in fact I think I should do more of that....

  • edited October 3

    @Trigger_the_Monkey hey that is a cool idea!
    use obsidian to make your own effects. hadn't thought of that.
    I kinda want complete sound morphing freedom ..character of drum hits to morph or change over time.
    maybe ill just have to render it and listen each time :/

  • resamplimg obsidian and using it back in obsidian for another resamplimg is very powerful workflow... fun fact: lot of Slate factory samples (kicks, snares, hihats, toms) vere created using this method in Obsidian. Basically everything in banks : Crushed LoFi, Electro 1/2, HardStep 1/2, Trance 1/2 is 100% created by resynthesing it in multiple rounds in Obsidian

  • @boingboing said:
    @Trigger_the_Monkey hey that is a cool idea!
    use obsidian to make your own effects. hadn't thought of that.
    I kinda wan't complete sound morphing freedom ..character of drum hits to morph or change over time.
    maybe ill just have to render it and listen each time :/

    You can always render different versions of the drums to the three OSCs in Obsidian and crossfade between them with the XY pad.

  • @Stiksi said:

    @boingboing said:
    @Trigger_the_Monkey hey that is a cool idea!
    use obsidian to make your own effects. hadn't thought of that.
    I kinda wan't complete sound morphing freedom ..character of drum hits to morph or change over time.
    maybe ill just have to render it and listen each time :/

    You can always render different versions of the drums to the three OSCs in Obsidian and crossfade between them with the XY pad.

    Yah true. Another option .thanks. It might be sufficient though I just thought it would be cool to morph the decay over time to make the hits more or less punchy ...for example.

  • edited October 3

    @dendy said:
    resamplimg obsidian and using it back in obsidian for another resamplimg is very powerful workflow... fun fact: lot of Slate factory samples (kicks, snares, hihats, toms) vere created using this method in Obsidian. Basically everything in banks : Crushed LoFi, Electro 1/2, HardStep 1/2, Trance 1/2 is 100% created by resynthesing it in multiple rounds in Obsidian

    I'll have to give it a go. why though are you unable to achieve what you want just with the obsidian ? what benefits does this workflow offer ? it sounds like more envelopes, filters etc have been required than the obsidian alone could offer ?

    In theory I like the idea of being able to go back to an obsidian patch and being able to make different versions or edits of it easily and to make good use of the knob section on the obsidian to alter my drum sounds in cool ways with these knobs.
    The obsidian->sample->obsidian-> etc method sounds like once you make a cool sound it would be a headache to go back and change it with as much freedom if it were a patch.

    Admittedly I am just starting to get serious with my synth programing and maybe I will find that having all this flexibility of editing my old patches is not necessary and I will be missing out on the benefits of just focusing on making good samples.

    I'll have to try it out.

    Edit:
    It seems I may have been confused.
    Rendering the whole song with the synth drum hits pattern does not fix this problem ? The hits are still inconsistent even in the rendered wav. So to make a consistent sample from the obsidian I render just one hit at the start of the song ?
    So looks like I have no choice but to resample.

  • edited October 3

    @boingboing said:

    @Stiksi said:

    @boingboing said:
    @Trigger_the_Monkey hey that is a cool idea!
    use obsidian to make your own effects. hadn't thought of that.
    I kinda wan't complete sound morphing freedom ..character of drum hits to morph or change over time.
    maybe ill just have to render it and listen each time :/

    You can always render different versions of the drums to the three OSCs in Obsidian and crossfade between them with the XY pad.

    Yah true. Another option .thanks. It might be sufficient though I just thought it would be cool to morph the decay over time to make the hits more or less punchy ...for example.

    You can still use envelopes and automate the envelopes, it’s the super short attack and decay times that produce variance. If you don’t use very short times, it should stay pretty consistent. It’s all about finding the balance between what you want to change and what you want to keep constant.

    I used to want to create everything in one patch and have it all adjustable, but later on I found that I very rarely go in and change the basics because it’s just easier to start over and go through the process again. It might be different for you, YMMV, but just food for thought 🙂 Making starting blocks as templates is probably a very good idea, though.

  • edited October 3

    @Stiksi said:

    @boingboing said:

    @Stiksi said:

    @boingboing said:
    @Trigger_the_Monkey hey that is a cool idea!
    use obsidian to make your own effects. hadn't thought of that.
    I kinda wan't complete sound morphing freedom ..character of drum hits to morph or change over time.
    maybe ill just have to render it and listen each time :/

    You can always render different versions of the drums to the three OSCs in Obsidian and crossfade between them with the XY pad.

    Yah true. Another option .thanks. It might be sufficient though I just thought it would be cool to morph the decay over time to make the hits more or less punchy ...for example.

    You can still use envelopes and automate the envelopes, it’s the super short attack and decay times that produce variance. If you don’t use very short times, it should stay pretty consistent. It’s all about finding the balance between what you want to change and what you want to keep constant.

    I used to want to create everything in one patch and have it all adjustable, but later on I found that I very rarely go in and change the basics because it’s just easier to start over and go through the process again. It might be different for you, YMMV, but just food for thought 🙂 Making starting blocks as templates is probably a very good idea, though.

    I was also thinking about the benefits of starting from scratch each time. more chance of discovering new sounds and keeping my sound fresh ? getting better at using the synth ?..I do wonder if I will be able to create kicks each time as good as the ones that are currently taking me all day to make I'll get better I guess over time. Thanks for the thought foods :yum:

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