Unclean handling of AU with resulting project problems

Not from me, but worth mentioning:

https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/comment/657956/#Comment_657956

"Ns2 always locks up on me frequently, usually requires rebooting as If i quit it from app selector and reload it just locks up again. Very Frustrating. Probably au related but NS2 doesn’t handle this situation as cleanly AUM. Once a project starts misbehaving in NS2 it becomes a complete pain and often I can’t seem to rescue it."

If I can get more details, I will post them

«13

Comments

  • @tja said:
    Not from me, but worth mentioning:

    https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/comment/657956/#Comment_657956

    "Ns2 always locks up on me frequently, usually requires rebooting as If i quit it from app selector and reload it just locks up again. Very Frustrating. Probably au related but NS2 doesn’t handle this situation as cleanly AUM. Once a project starts misbehaving in NS2 it becomes a complete pain and often I can’t seem to rescue it."

    If I can get more details, I will post them

    I have had 1 frozen project (out of 100 or so) back when I first started using NS2 and I use StepBud regularly with no issues at all. Air 1 with iOS 12.3.1. Also, I like AUM but the workflow is way more fiddly and CPU usage much greater than NS2. FWIW

  • tjatja
    edited June 30

    That's nice, but any positive comments are not needed here.
    To find the problems - that do exist -we would need more negative comments, to finally have an idea what creates the problems.
    It seems to be based on one or some AU Apps, but if this can render a project into a state where it cannot be used anymore, something is also wrong with NS2.

    So please, only append when you can contribute problems, to finally find the cause.
    Many thanks

  • edited June 30

    @tja said:
    That's nice, but any positive comments are not needed here.
    To find the problems - that do exist -we would need more negative comments, to finally have an idea what creates the problems.
    It seems to be based on one or some AU Apps, but if this can render a project into a state where it cannot be used anymore, something is also wrong with NS2.

    So please, only append when you can contribute problems, to finally find the cause.
    Many thanks

    There’s nothing wrong with somebody saying that they are not having problems such as some of those described in that person’s post. That may indicate user error and should also be investigated as such. Especially when I am on a lesser system than that person is using and they seem to be having problems in a lot of areas that I am not seeing.

  • No. This does not help at all. We all know that this problem is more or less uncommon or even rare.
    Any unneeded positive comments would just obfuscate this thread.
    We only need people with similar problems and more details here!

    So please restrain from other postings.
    Many thanks

  • edited June 30

    I’ve had multiple problems with NS2 locking up. Sometimes Ns2 will ‘free’ itself if you leave It long enough, but it usually requires a reboot of the iPad.

    Stepbud doesn’t work for me at all in Ns2. It fires of a million note ons which results in the sound being like a demented wasp.

    If I put a midi data viewer after stepbud you can see it’s sending too many note ons.

    This happens every time for me. You may not notice it depending on the sound being played.

    As for projects that do lock up, trying to replicate the plugins in another DAW usually results in things working fine.

    NS2 seems to get along quite badly with audio damage plug ins if you use more than one or two in a project.

    I’ve sent Dendy a problem project and he verified the issues.

    My comment on the other forum about how NS2 handles ‘problem’ auv3 s is I think fair. In AUM, if the plug in crashes or locks up it gets shown as failed in AUMs channel strip but everything else inAUM still works. You can save, export files, whatever and the project keeps working.

    In NS2 it’s not even possible to save or export stems when a plugin causes a lockup issue.

    If I have a problem project and it fails, and I reboot the iPad and load NS2 again and reload the problem project, trying to export it results in more lockup’s.

    I’m glad it works for other people but that doesn’t make NS2 work right for me.

    My success rate with issue free projects is very low.

    I use NS2 less and less because of this. I do not get issues in AUM with the same set of plugins.

    Here’s a thread discussing the issue with stepbud a while back:

    https://forum.audiob.us/discussion/31727/work-in-progress-new-auv3-midi-sequencer-app#latest

    I have the same issues with the latest versions of NS2 and stepbud.

  • Many thanks, @klownshed

  • @klownshed said:
    I’ve had multiple problems with NS2 locking up. Sometimes Ns2 will ‘free’ itself if you leave It long enough, but it usually requires a reboot of the iPad.

    Stepbud doesn’t work for me at all in Ns2. It fires of a million note ons which results in the sound being like a demented wasp.

    If I put a midi data viewer after stepbud you can see it’s sending too many note ons.

    This happens every time for me. You may not notice it depending on the sound being played.

    As for projects that do lock up, trying to replicate the plugins in another DAW usually results in things working fine.

    NS2 seems to get along quite badly with audio damage plug ins if you use more than one or two in a project.

    I’ve sent Dendy a problem project and he verified the issues.

    My comment on the other forum about how NS2 handles ‘problem’ auv3 s is I think fair. In AUM, if the plug in crashes or locks up it gets shown as failed in AUMs channel strip but everything else inAUM still works. You can save, export files, whatever and the project keeps working.

    In NS2 it’s not even possible to save or export stems when a plugin causes a lockup issue.

    If I have a problem project and it fails, and I reboot the iPad and load NS2 again and reload the problem project, trying to export it results in more lockup’s.

    I’m glad it works for other people but that doesn’t make NS2 work right for me.

    My success rate with issue free projects is very low.

    I use NS2 less and less because of this. I do not get issues in AUM with the same set of plugins.

    @klownshed - Sorry to hear about your issues.

    StepBud does work for me but I was thinking of another app and forgot this part - StepBud works if NS2 looping is turned off. Sorry for the confusion! Obviously there’s something going on there as you’ve stated. I checked with a MIDI monitor and when looping is off the MIDI stream is normal. When looping is on there is a long series of note on’s followed by a long series of note off’s. I wonder if this has something to do with the current MIDI pipeline in NS2 or if it’s a SB issue.

    As far as Audio Damage plug-in’s I found they can be CPU heavy on my old Air 1 in AUM or NS2 and other apps worked better for me. I have been fortunate in that either the built-in effects in NS2 work for me or certain 3rd party AU’s work fine and it’s not worth it to me to bother with the others. The problem is, is it NS2 or is it the AU that’s the issue? Why do some AU’s work absolutely fine in NS2 and some don’t?

    I have had good luck with Bram Bos, 4Pockets, FAC, Bleass, some Klevgrand, Backpulver, and a few others. For synths I’m pretty happy with Obsidian but also like KQDixie, SynthMaster 1, some of the Yonac synths, Virtual ANS and a few others. Overall, I’m not hurting for AU’s that work for me, fortunately!

    Good luck, I hope these things get straightened out. I appreciate your frustrations. I’ve had my share although, for the most part, NS2 is now my go-to and I can get things done with it.

  • edited July 1

    Bah. Nvm. Not worth the inevitable argument.
    Deleted.

  • @number37 said:
    Bah. Nvm. Not worth the inevitable argument.
    Deleted.

    I appreciated it. ;)

  • edited July 1

    Confirming, i had communication with @klownshed about his strange issues .. if i good remember back then i reduced issue to Audio Damage Grind causing CPU overload and freezes.

    Anyway all issues he reported are still opened (including that one with improper render length for some BPM project values) and not forgotten, i hope sooner or later they will be solved, no matter how rare they are !

    Regarding StepBud, i communicated with dev a while ago, reported issue to him - there is problem that in NS2 StepBud sends enormous amount of note ON events, without proper note OFF events (you can see it if you put Midi Monitor after StepBud - there is literally Note On flood coming out of SB). So there is some issue obviously.

    @anickt
    The problem is, is it NS2 or is it the AU that’s the issue? Why do some AU’s work absolutely fine in NS2 and some don’t?

    This can be tricky. Usually it needs lot of communication between Matt and plugin dev. If plugin is working improperly in host, it can be just host bug, or just plugin bug, or both.

    Worst thing is, even if plugin is not working properly only in NS , it still can be bug on plugin side (it happened few times already). So it's always a bit "detective" work to found who is responsible (or better to say "capable") to make fix.

    Most frustrating is,that such problems are massively holding back core-developement like iPhone version or audio tracks... To be honest after all experiences since initial release, if i would have time machine i would return back to 2017-2018 and will convince matt to not support AU at all :-D In this case iPhone version and audio tracks will already there, probably with lot other amazing goodnes :( I can now see why Korg is refusing add AU to Gadget. Wise decision on their side ;)

  • @anickt

    As far as Audio Damage plug-in’s I found they can be CPU heavy on my old Air 1 in AUM or NS2 and other apps worked better for me. I have been fortunate in that either the built-in effects in NS2 work for me or certain 3rd party AU’s work fine and it’s not worth it to me to bother with the others

    The reason I like Audio Damage plug ins is that they are not duplicates of stock built in effects. They are fun to use in sound design and are designed to do things that are impossible or tricky with the built in stuff.

    If im getting a sound I like but hitting snags with reliability, I am more likely to switch DAW and try and replicate the sound elsewhere than switch out plugins. It’s the sound that is inspiring to me not the Ui of the app I’m using.

  • tjatja
    edited July 1

    Many thanks, @dendy

    So I assume that the StepBud developer is already involved?

    But more important is the behavior of NS2 in regards to saving and loading projects.
    As @klownshed wrote, the behavior should be like that from AUM, where any bad part does not hinder or destroy the project!
    This is a major problem.

    In regards to AU, I am with you.
    They are brand new, lots of people seem to do things wrong and I hate that tiny windows anyways. Add to that the memory constrain problem for multiple instances of the same plug-in....
    But then, AUM shows how this can be handled: Free floating windows that can overlap and move, or be resized to full size.
    This is sadly missing from NS2, would be great.

    If asked, I would have preferred IAA support instead of AU support.
    :-)

  • edited July 1

    @tja
    So I assume that the StepBud developer is already involved?

    Last reply i got from him was somewhere in half of May, he wrote that he is already on something, but since then silence.. i'm going to ask him again :)

  • @tja said:

    If asked, I would have preferred IAA support instead of AU support.
    :-)

    I couldn't disagree more! ;-)

    From my personal perspective, I've been spending way too much money on audio apps for the iPad since the iPad 2 was released (I bought one pretty much on launch day, queued for hours!).

    I played around with IAA apps a lot. But I dislike the IAA workflow and it ended up being too much hassle for too little return compared to spending the same time with my MacBook instead.

    But then iOS 11 included Auv3 and that has been a total game changer for me. I am enjoying making music on iPad again because it.

    I sympathise with the developers, but it will be worth the effort! I think we will look back on this period as a golden age for Indie audio app developers on iOS. Most of the best stuff being made at the moment, NS2 very much included, is by tiny teams or individual developers. Which puts a lot of pressure on the individuals, obviously, and the closeness of the developers to the community is great to see. For example, StepBud; Features were pretty much being added by the developer in real time in response to feedback in a thread on the audiobus forum.

    That's a pretty cool thing to witness.

    NS2 is and should be part of this Indie app 'revolution'.

  • @klownshed said:
    @anickt

    As far as Audio Damage plug-in’s I found they can be CPU heavy on my old Air 1 in AUM or NS2 and other apps worked better for me. I have been fortunate in that either the built-in effects in NS2 work for me or certain 3rd party AU’s work fine and it’s not worth it to me to bother with the others

    The reason I like Audio Damage plug ins is that they are not duplicates of stock built in effects. They are fun to use in sound design and are designed to do things that are impossible or tricky with the built in stuff.

    If im getting a sound I like but hitting snags with reliability, I am more likely to switch DAW and try and replicate the sound elsewhere than switch out plugins. It’s the sound that is inspiring to me not the Ui of the app I’m using.

    I get it! Everyone has their own approach. If I had a newer iPad I might approach things differently myself! B)

  • @dendy said:
    Confirming, i had communication with @klownshed about his strange issues .. if i good remember back then i reduced issue to Audio Damage Grind causing CPU overload and freezes.

    Anyway all issues he reported are still opened (including that one with improper render length for some BPM project values) and not forgotten, i hope sooner or later they will be solved, no matter how rare they are !

    Regarding StepBud, i communicated with dev a while ago, reported issue to him - there is problem that in NS2 StepBud sends enormous amount of note ON events, without proper note OFF events (you can see it if you put Midi Monitor after StepBud - there is literally Note On flood coming out of SB). So there is some issue obviously.

    @anickt
    The problem is, is it NS2 or is it the AU that’s the issue? Why do some AU’s work absolutely fine in NS2 and some don’t?

    This can be tricky. Usually it needs lot of communication between Matt and plugin dev. If plugin is working improperly in host, it can be just host bug, or just plugin bug, or both.

    Worst thing is, even if plugin is not working properly only in NS , it still can be bug on plugin side (it happened few times already). So it's always a bit "detective" work to found who is responsible (or better to say "capable") to make fix.

    Most frustrating is,that such problems are massively holding back core-developement like iPhone version or audio tracks... To be honest after all experiences since initial release, if i would have time machine i would return back to 2017-2018 and will convince matt to not support AU at all :-D In this case iPhone version and audio tracks will already there, probably with lot other amazing goodnes :( I can now see why Korg is refusing add AU to Gadget. Wise decision on their side ;)

    I’d rather see iPhone and audio tracks before going crazy fixing AU’s. The AU’s I do use all work fine and the ones that do not work for me don’t hold me back from making music.

    Of course I acknowledge that others may differ in their approach/opinion but I would think that many would agree that audio tracks and iPhone version would have a bigger impact on NS2 and should be prioritized.

  • I’ve definitely got a problem with a track I’ve been working on for months. I’ve had a bunch of IRL changes going on so I haven’t been working on any music, but I pulled up this tune and I’ve had a couple of oddities since the NS2 update...

    1. Render times which used to be 3x speed or so are at .1! That’s point 1. I didn’t change anything at all except update NS2. No new AU’s, etc. just opening the project and trying a render.
    2. I worked on a mix for 2 hours and tried to do a Save As and it hung forever. I can’t remember if I had to restart the iPad or just NS2, but alas, all changes were poof’d.

    I’ll try to do some more testing, like save a test version if possible and go from there, but still getting settled in the new home and other stuff. Looking forward to getting back in the swing of things here.

  • edited July 1

    @drez

    Your issues mirror my problems with NS2 locking up during opening/saving/exporting/mixdown etc.

    I did manage to salvage one problem track;

    First of all I made a copy of the problem project in the files app.

    Then, after restarting the iPad I managed to get it to open after a few tries (it would often lock up during opening the project).

    Once it opened I turned off au plug ins and saved the project.

    I think the plugin that was causing me grief last time was actually bypassed.

    After a few attempts I managed to get it to save and after that it worked ok. I didn’t add back the ‘problem’ au fx but might try that next time to see what happens.

  • @klownshed said:
    @drez

    Your issues mirror my problems with NS2 locking up during opening/saving/exporting/mixdown etc.

    I did manage to salvage one problem track;

    First of all I made a copy of the problem project in the files app.

    Then, after restarting the iPad I managed to get it to open after a few tries (it would often lock up during opening the project).

    Once it opened I turned off au plug ins and saved the project.

    I think the plugin that was causing me grief last time was actually bypassed.

    After a few attempts I managed to get it to save and after that it worked ok. I didn’t add back the ‘problem’ au fx but might try that next time to see what happens.

    Yeah that’s my next process, thanks for confirming good steps!

    I’m guessing something in the fixes to AU’s might have borked something else. I’m only using a few I think so it should be pretty easy to identify if it is an AU.

    I was going to get the Fabfilter bundle but going to hold off until I can get get to the bottom of this issue.

  • @drez said:

    @klownshed said:
    @drez

    Your issues mirror my problems with NS2 locking up during opening/saving/exporting/mixdown etc.

    I did manage to salvage one problem track;

    First of all I made a copy of the problem project in the files app.

    Then, after restarting the iPad I managed to get it to open after a few tries (it would often lock up during opening the project).

    Once it opened I turned off au plug ins and saved the project.

    I think the plugin that was causing me grief last time was actually bypassed.

    After a few attempts I managed to get it to save and after that it worked ok. I didn’t add back the ‘problem’ au fx but might try that next time to see what happens.

    Yeah that’s my next process, thanks for confirming good steps!

    I’m guessing something in the fixes to AU’s might have borked something else. I’m only using a few I think so it should be pretty easy to identify if it is an AU.

    I was going to get the Fabfilter bundle but going to hold off until I can get get to the bottom of this issue.

    What AU’s are causing problems?

  • @drez

    please try this:

    • set latency to "low", quit app
    • run app again
    • now do mixdown, with sample rate same as realtime one (you can see your realtime sample rate in settings > audio

    curious if it helps with slow render time

    Of course identifying which plugin causes troubles would help !

  • @anickt said:

    @drez said:

    @klownshed said:
    @drez

    Your issues mirror my problems with NS2 locking up during opening/saving/exporting/mixdown etc.

    I did manage to salvage one problem track;

    First of all I made a copy of the problem project in the files app.

    Then, after restarting the iPad I managed to get it to open after a few tries (it would often lock up during opening the project).

    Once it opened I turned off au plug ins and saved the project.

    I think the plugin that was causing me grief last time was actually bypassed.

    After a few attempts I managed to get it to save and after that it worked ok. I didn’t add back the ‘problem’ au fx but might try that next time to see what happens.

    Yeah that’s my next process, thanks for confirming good steps!

    I’m guessing something in the fixes to AU’s might have borked something else. I’m only using a few I think so it should be pretty easy to identify if it is an AU.

    I was going to get the Fabfilter bundle but going to hold off until I can get get to the bottom of this issue.

    What AU’s are causing problems?

    Not sure yet. Going to try @dendy suggestion and report back.

  • edited July 1

    @dendy said:
    @drez

    please try this:

    • set latency to "low", quit app
    • run app again
    • now do mixdown, with sample rate same as realtime one (you can see your realtime sample rate in settings > audio

    curious if it helps with slow render time

    Of course identifying which plugin causes troubles would help !

    So...that didn't help...matter o fact, now I can't render at all. Its stuck at 0.0x.

    I tried to do a save us with no changes and it got stuck forever on Saving <filename> with the blue spinner on the right. Then, it just blew up and closed the app. Now I have a New filename, but its 0 bytes in size and the date is --- (three dashes).

    Then I tried Archiving it and it got stuck on Adding instruments ... forever (seemed like 20m?) and then went through and created the .nsa file. I then exported that .nsa file to dropbox.

    So i can archive and export it, but I cannot save as.

    Here are the AU's I've got going on (and it was more than I thought haha) 1 instance unless noted:

    • Eos 2 (2 instances)
    • ADverb2
    • Shaper (2 instances)
    • Dubstation
    • Discord 4
    • Pro-Q2 (4 instances)
    • Grind
    • FuzzPlus3
    • Svep
    • FAC Transient
    • Ravenscroft275
    • Synthmaster One

    Now what?

  • That's horrifying, @drez
    :o :o :o

  • @tja said:
    That's horrifying, @drez
    :o :o :o

    Haha, well, yeah a little. But I've at least got the current version that I can keep working on and save...hopefully. I've got exported copies, etc. I've got a few wav renders done so if this is the end, then I've at least got those :) Making music is just for fun for me, so if it all goes it all goes and I just starting with a new idea. I'm tired of this tune anywho :lol:

  • edited July 2

    my bets are Grind. Try remove it from project.

    can you send me your project ?

  • @dendy said:
    my bets are Grind. Try remove it from project.

    can you send me your project ?

    Disabled Grind (didn’t delete it) and I can now render and I can save the project.

    That plugin....it sounds so effing good but it has given me more grief than it’s worth. Had problems with it in BM3 as well.

    Man, it sounds soooo good on this drum track too.

    Well...it did :cry:

  • Ok..even more strange.

    I save the custom Grind patch to a user preset, delete Grind, re-add, load up the custom patch...

    Works fine. I can save a new version and I can render.

    Rendering without Grind was at 1.6x, but with Grind it’s at 1.1

    I’ll take it! Now to start mixing!

  • edited July 2

    I expected that ... i had also minor issues with Grind, then @klownshed and now you ... i wrote message to Chris Randal with description of this problem (and link to this tread), hope he will be able to reproduce issue and fix it.

  • edited July 2

    One additional warning sign I’ve noticed is when I’m opening a project that has (or will soon get) locking up issues, more often than not I have a Ruismaker Noir track or two.

    When I open the project, a Noir hit gets triggered (double tap the project to load it and ‘Boom’ goes Noir!). Sometimes after that I lose all audio and if I go to a channel with a Noir instance, there’s a ‘loading UI’ message which just spins. All the while the project is silent. Quitting NS2 and relaunching often fixes it. Sometimes I have to switch off the iPad.

    And no Grinds were present. Yet. Cos grind is indeed awesome... :-)

Sign In or Register to comment.