Will We Actually See Audio Tracks?

No disrespect to the developer, I think the world of NS2. That being said, last night I was starting on a remix using some trap acapella and the double time bpm got me thinking about the difference in how Auria and NS2 approach bpm. I never noticed it before but now I am wondering how Audio Tracks will be implemented. It seems NS2 would need a complete overhaul to add Audio Tracks.

How it works now inside NS2, when you change bpm, the track plays faster or slower depending on the bpm. Well i realized this wouldnt work if you have an audio track in your song as it would change the pitch.

So i started thinking about how Auria does this with Audio and Midi. When you change the bpm in Auria, the speed of the playback doesn’t change but it changes the beat grid and any midi notes change along with the grid.

Isn’t this then a giant task and one that fundamentally changes how NS2 works? It seems like this would take a huge effort on the part of the developer.

I remember a comment from someone who said Audio Tracks was not just a “bolt on task” and now i think i understand why.

Any thoughts from you guys on this?

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Comments

  • Broken promises. No iPhone version. No audio tracks. I guess its time to move on to another capable app.

  • What is the status on the iPhone version?

  • @9ine6ix said:
    Broken promises. No iPhone version. No audio tracks. I guess its time to move on to another capable app.

    Umm no. I will not be “moving on to another capable app” and that isn’t really what this thread is about. Ns2 is the only “capable app” that has filled my need in 5 years of ipad music production. Even if it never gets audio tracks i will still use it. I really only posted this because i am genuinely curious about how audio tracks will be implemented. This definitely isn't a bash to the developer. He takes a long time but releases really stable versions so it is worth it in my opinion.

  • edited September 4

    @Nomzai

    Tempo track with ramping (continuous tempo changes) was one of reasons why audio tracks weren't included in initial release - Matt wanted to do it properly and there was not enough time to deal with time stretching (which is exact solution for this problem).

    Sad it that more than half year was lost by solving AU-related issues, AudioBus implementation and stuff like that. Otherwise it would be most probably there.

    But in my opinion first audio tracks release doesn't need solve this issue because it affects just one subset of audio track use cases. I used audio tracks in BM2 a lot, sampling loops from HW synths - ad i never needed proper time stretching :)

    Anyway, it's all up to Matt if he decides to deliver 'perfect solution' with first release of audio track or he decides to go with compromise but release it sooner.

    Of course - this will be topic after iPhone version ;)

  • @dendy said:
    @Nomzai

    Tempo track with ramping (continuous tempo changes) was one of reasons why audio tracks weren't included in initial release - Matt wanted to do it properly and there was not enough time to deal with time stretching (which is exact solution for this problem).

    Sad it that more than half year was lost by solving AU-related issues, AudioBus implementation and stuff like that. Otherwise it would be most probably there.

    But in my opinion first audio tracks release doesn't need solve this issue because it affects just one subset of audio track use cases. I used audio tracks in BM2 a lot, sampling loops from HW synths - ad i never needed proper time stretching :)

    Anyway, it's all up to Matt if he decides to deliver 'perfect solution' with first release of audio track or he decides to go with compromise but release it sooner.

    Of course - this will be topic after iPhone version ;)

    Time stretching is the solution? Can you elaborate? If it is like time stretching that i familiar with then there is a degradation of audio quality. Is this what you mean?

  • edited September 4

    yes of course there is some level of degradation of quality - it depends how much you change tempo from original, also how good timestretching algo is app using (some are weaker, some better) ..

    but at it's basic it does what usual user expects - after project tempo change, all recorded audio clips stay in sync with midi clips without changing pitch ..

    of course, such feature must be always optional, because in many cases (single hit samples, non-loops) you don't want this happening .. plus if you're nor messing with tempo changes you don't need it at all..

  • @Tarekith said:
    What is the status on the iPhone version?

    It’s coming but still nothing definite. Development definitely hasn’t stopped, but we just can’t say anything specific.

  • @Nomzai said:
    No disrespect to the developer, I think the world of NS2. That being said, last night I was starting on a remix using some trap acapella and the double time bpm got me thinking about the difference in how Auria and NS2 approach bpm. I never noticed it before but now I am wondering how Audio Tracks will be implemented. It seems NS2 would need a complete overhaul to add Audio Tracks.

    How it works now inside NS2, when you change bpm, the track plays faster or slower depending on the bpm. Well i realized this wouldnt work if you have an audio track in your song as it would change the pitch.

    So i started thinking about how Auria does this with Audio and Midi. When you change the bpm in Auria, the speed of the playback doesn’t change but it changes the beat grid and any midi notes change along with the grid.

    Isn’t this then a giant task and one that fundamentally changes how NS2 works? It seems like this would take a huge effort on the part of the developer.

    I remember a comment from someone who said Audio Tracks was not just a “bolt on task” and now i think i understand why.

    It seems that some aren’t aware that audio tracks, iPhone version and convolution reverb were mentioned as upcoming features even before NS2 was released. I would hardly term that “bolt on”. Correct me if I’m wrong @dendy or @Stiksi but from previous discussions it sounds to me like the foundations for these and other features are already in place and would not “fundamentally change how NS2 works” in order to be implemented. I think Matt has a roadmap for all of this already in place. Fear not @Nomzai :)

  • edited September 5

    @anickt
    Correct me if I’m wrong @dendy or @Stiksi but from previous discussions it sounds to me like the foundations for these and other features are already in place and would not “fundamentally change how NS2 works”

    very much exactly what you said ;-)

    I mentioned it somewhere .. if there wouldn't be that damn AU plugins, iphone version and audio tracks (and probably tons of other great features) would be already there for long time. I just wish i have time machine - i would return back to 2017 and convince Matt totally drop AU support in first release and concentrate just on iPhone version and audio tracks.

    why not ? There were DAWs (or music production apps) on desktop which didn't supported any exernal plugins for long time, just build in stuff (Reason, Orion, Buzz, or Caustic, Gadget on iOS) - and still they were pretty powerful, pretty popular, lot people made lot of music with it. There is advantage in closed platform apps (stability, efficiency). When i'm looking back now, opening NS to AU world (at least in first release) was mistake in my option. It consumed maybe year (or more!) of development time. Enough time for perfect iPhone, audio tracks and more ..

    Of course that is just my personal opinion which cannot change anything - obviously this didn't happened in our timeline, so obviously i will never have time machine :)))

  • @dendy said:
    When i'm looking back now, opening NS to AU world (at least in first release) was mistake in my option.

    Back during NS2’s extended development period, I remember wishing Matt would hold off on AU support, just so he could get 1.0 out quicker...

  • If NS2 had been released without AUv3 support surely that would just be one more thing for people to complain about? Personally I think supporting Aus was the right decision.

    Audio tracks and phone support will come, but it will take time. My guess is that the phone version is probably relatively close, maybe before the end of this year, and audio tracks are at least a year off - just going by the app's history.

  • AUv3 was a good decision from the start. Not too concerned about iPhone because I never use it for music😀
    Sure hope audio tracks are closer than a full year away🙏🏻
    For me there’s always Auria Pro for that task

  • I wasn't concerned with iPhone version either but there have been many times lately where I wished I had it on my phone to get down some ideas when I wasn't near my iPad. And despite the workarounds for audio I really want to be able to just drop samples on a track rather than going through the "hard work" of using Slate or Obsidian. LOL!

  • Ok I’m an easily swayed judge by your reasonings .....Presently I’ve not even one music production app on my phone so I might as well start with NS2😎

  • edited September 5

    Every time Dendy pulls out the “AU and Audiobus Support” thing the impact to the development timeline gets bigger. It’s like the fisherman’s story about the one that got away. 😂

    Don’t get me wrong! I think it’s kinda cute. B)

  • @number37 said:
    Every time Dendy pulls out the “AU and Audiobus Support” thing the impact to the development timeline gets bigger. It’s like the fisherman’s story about the one that got away. 😂

    Don’t get me wrong! I think it’s kinda cute. B)

    Yes, but nonetheless very accurate because over time he can more clearly see the effects of that phase. One measures an earthquake, then notes over time the aftershocks, and only gets a full picture of the effects of the earthquake afterwards. Initial reports can’t include how long it will take for clean-up, rebuilding, and getting back to work with the same momentum as existed prior to the earthquake.

  • edited September 8

    Yeh. But nobody really cares. It all just sounds like excuses to anyone who isn’t from the NS1 old guard. It sounds unprofessional IMO.

    This, coming from someone who sympathizes completely, and is in no hurry. I’m just saying how it looks.

    No offense, I hope, though I recognize that it’ll probably be taken that way. It’s meant constructively.

  • I don’t see how it’s unprofessional for a dev to shift gears based on customer requests. Quite the opposite.

  • edited September 8

    @anickt said:
    I don’t see how it’s unprofessional for a dev to shift gears based on customer requests. Quite the opposite.

    [edit] after re-reading your post, I think I may have misunderstood your point. Oh well, I’ll leave what I wrote as a general comment, not necessarily in response to yours.

    That’s not even close to what I’m talking about. I’m talking about the repetitive rhetoric of the long-time NS community about the delays being caused by the decision to add AU and Audiobus support. In fact, I’m not referring to the developer at all. I fully appreciate the difficulties, respect that he pursues excellence over time, and have nothing but respect.

    I’m saying I think these repetitive laments by well-meaning supporters do more harm than good. They run the risk of coming off as lame excuses. Blip doesn’t need that.

    Sorry for the bluntness. Again, I mean it as well-intentioned “outside” perspective, and actually don’t like having said it. I’ll just leave it with an apologiy for being so condescending.

  • I hear you. Speaking for myself, the only reason I’ve brought these things up a couple of times is because some people new to the forum don’t seem to know how and why things are the way they are now. B)

  • @number37 said:
    I’m saying I think these repetitive laments by well-meaning supporters do more harm than good. They run the risk of coming off as lame excuses. Blip doesn’t need that.

    If the same repetitive lament about audio tracks keep getting asked and the same repetitive lament of an answer hasn’t changed, then why do people keep asking? Either they are new and don’t know why the delay, or they don’t like the answer, so they keep asking the question.

  • @drez said:

    @number37 said:
    I’m saying I think these repetitive laments by well-meaning supporters do more harm than good. They run the risk of coming off as lame excuses. Blip doesn’t need that.

    If the same repetitive lament about audio tracks keep getting asked and the same repetitive lament of an answer hasn’t changed, then why do people keep asking? Either they are new and don’t know why the delay, or they don’t like the answer, so they keep asking the question.

    I don’t think my post was a “lame repetitive lament” in fact i feel that it was an insightful question about the difficulties in adding audiotracks regarding the way ns2 actually implements playback speed currently. Yes the title reflects the fact that i am worried about whether it is possible to implement audio tracks in the current form of ns2 but i really don’t think it is “lame and repetitive” but to each their own. It is also not unreasonable to inquire when this feature that we have all been promised would be here months ago would be arriving as many of us are depending on this feature. We all understand setbacks and delays and many of us are fully willing to wait due to the excellence of the developers’ releases but some people feel that a response directly from the developer at this time would be appropriate instead of conjecture from mods and others on this forum.

  • I love Garageband.

  • @9ine6ix said:
    I love Garageband.

    So are you just going around trolling ns2 threads now or what?

  • Ha, never a troll. I was like one of the first few persons to join the old NS1 forum and still going strong. I have several NS1 Youtube videos viewed by thousands. Have a good day.

  • To be fair, we are unprofessional by definition, none of us gets paid for this.

  • @Nomzai said:

    @drez said:

    @number37 said:
    I’m saying I think these repetitive laments by well-meaning supporters do more harm than good. They run the risk of coming off as lame excuses. Blip doesn’t need that.

    If the same repetitive lament about audio tracks keep getting asked and the same repetitive lament of an answer hasn’t changed, then why do people keep asking? Either they are new and don’t know why the delay, or they don’t like the answer, so they keep asking the question.

    I don’t think my post was a “lame repetitive lament” in fact i feel that it was an insightful question about the difficulties in adding audiotracks regarding the way ns2 actually implements playback speed currently. Yes the title reflects the fact that i am worried about whether it is possible to implement audio tracks in the current form of ns2 but i really don’t think it is “lame and repetitive” but to each their own. It is also not unreasonable to inquire when this feature that we have all been promised would be here months ago would be arriving as many of us are depending on this feature. We all understand setbacks and delays and many of us are fully willing to wait due to the excellence of the developers’ releases but some people feel that a response directly from the developer at this time would be appropriate instead of conjecture from mods and others on this forum.

    Conjecture from “mods”? Dendy has been beta testing NS2 for years and so have most if not all of the mods. I’m pretty certain they are in the know :lol:

    Sorry but you can’t say one is a lament and not the other. Your question has been asked as many times as it’s been answered.

    If you are truly fully willing to wait due to the excellence of the developers’ releases then I guess you’re good to go.

  • Audio tracks planning to be an In-app purchase I do recall.

  • edited September 8

    @drez yes conjecture. Any reply about audiotracks at this point from other than the developer is a moot point and definitely conjecture when it is obvious speculation and the timeline keeps getting pushed vack from people who aren’t writing the code. Also i would suggest you actually read my original post before you respond again.

  • edited September 8

    Guys guys.. just stop. Not needed to build some flamewar here. Nothing happened here to be mad on each other. #makemusicnotflamewar

    @9ine6ix said:
    Audio tracks planning to be an In-app purchase I do recall.

    Yes exactly

    @Nomzai
    conjecture from mods and others on this forum.

    no no, let me explain situation.. There are no conjectures, what we are doing is not like "we are waiting in dark and sometimes beta version arrives to our testflight". We are in direct contact with Matt. Like direct discussions. We know plans, status, progress, issues he deals with, we are in active contact, trying to help...

    we are just walking on thin ice to not reveal more than we are allowed to reveal - that's all, that's why some answers are a bit vague. You wouldn't believe how it is sometimes hard to answer question enough for user but not reveal what shouldn't be revealed yet :) We are not guessing about anything. We just can't say everything cause we respect Matt's strategy "radio silence, hard work, surprise with result in AppStore" :)

    From public forums i noticed that with other apps beta testers are usually realy hold in darkness with no informatiin until some beta arrives - believe me this is not our case, not even remotely ;)

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