Bank / program change?

I’ve got my fingers crossed that i’m Just missing some kind of ‘setting’.

Can anyone confirm if Bank / program change functionality is in yet?

I use iOS apps via a midi controller most times and would like to be scrolling through the presets remotely.

Thanks in advance for confirmation. Cheers.

Comments

  • Sorry that one went to my wishlist for initial release. I've built in the low level support for it but didn't get to the editor. Would be interested on how you'd expect to see the editing implemented.

  • Seems like this one is going to be tough considering Obsidian doesn't use banks or set patch positions.

    First thought was perhaps the categories could sorta fake like they're "banks" and then each patch within (though nothing is really 'within' here) could be a "program". So, sending bank 1 would be the "all" bank and bank 2 would be "Lead", 3=pad 4=bass... Then a program change of N would be the Nth item in the list.

    For a live setting where you want to recall a specific patch, this would break the second a new patch was saved with a given tag. Well, if it was early in the list anyway. :)

    That said, if "reliable recall" isn't the goal, a system like that would probably work fine for remote patch browsing which, I think, is @SpookyZoo's primary motivation (don't mean to put words in your mouth).

    And, I suppose if you're playing live a bunch and know you need to rely on program changes, you could just avoid saving new patches high in the list until your epic world tour is over. :+1:

  • edited December 2018

    Yeah, Will is spot on. My main use would be remote browsing of patches.

    While I used the PChange feature in NS1’s editor occasionally, more often than not a separate track was available and easier. (For my brain) :)

    Would be interesting to see if there is further call for the feature or not.

    Program Change and comprehensive midi learn are pretty much top of my list for most apps, but that’s just to help me stick to a routine setup.

    Any Chance of the Filter/LFO parameters getting midi learn in future?

    Congrats on NS2. It’s a beauty!

  • edited December 2018

    Program change would be really helpful for those of us using external midi controllers and sequencers and such.

    the most direct solution (indeed the solution that some hardware synths without a "bank" architecture use) is to select programs from the "ALL" patches list this way:
    LSB 0 = PC 1-128
    LSB 1 = PC 129-256
    etc..

    yeah, it's a little screwy as the patches aren't numbered, but certainly better than nothing.

    another way could be to have a "Favorites" folder that is seen as PC 1-128

  • Any Chance of the Filter/LFO parameters getting midi learn in future?

    I dunno. For now, those can be of course be mapped to macros. And you can save Macro set ups separately from patches. So you can build up a little library of control sets to swap in and out as needed.

  • Ah, so there's unlimited macro setups. That could work. Cheers.

  • @SpookyZoo said:
    Ah, so there's unlimited macro setups. That could work. Cheers.

    Yep. When you tap the hamburger menu there you have to scroll the left list to the bottom to see the ALL button. In the screenshot, keep going past KNOB 5...

    image

  • Connected my hardware setup with NS2 and realised I would certainly use a program change feature that existed in NS1. There’s probably more challenges this time around for that?

  • edited December 2018

    @Will said:

    @SpookyZoo said:
    Ah, so there's unlimited macro setups. That could work. Cheers.

    Yep. When you tap the hamburger menu there you have to scroll the left list to the bottom to see the ALL button. In the screenshot, keep going past KNOB 5...

    image

    Hey Will, tried this out tonight but i’m finding that loading a new Macro Bank that I have saved will revert a patch back to its preset state.

    For example I load up an electric piano patch and bump up the tremolo speed and depth via the patch macros. Even if I save the project with those changes. When I load up my user created ‘Filter Macro bank’ that electric piano patch then loses it’s tremolo.

    Hope that makes sense and that maybe there’s a workaround for the workaround? :)

  • Yep, it makes sense. It's an issue for me too.

    Matt's aware that this isn't ideal. At one point a while back we discussed the possibility of 'applying' one or all current macro settings to the patch so that you could swap stuff out like this but, if I'm recalling the discussion correctly, due to complexity in the ways modulation sources (macros, LFOs, env...) can affect each other, it's not a simple fix.

    I kind of avoid it by starting all patches from scratch (generally) but this, of course, isn't a real solution.

  • edited December 2018

    @Will
    At one point a while back we discussed the possibility of 'applying' one or all current macro settings to the patch so that you could swap stuff out like this but, if I'm recalling the discussion correctly

    Yeah you remember very good. I was begging for such feature, would be really awesome for making alternatives from existing patches ...

  • Ok, cheers guys!

  • edited December 2018

    A 'set list' function like Korg Module would be a cool way to do program changes for us live players.

    It would also save the trouble of having to mess around with bank change messages if each song had its own A bank of 1-127 patches.

  • @montyrivers said:
    A 'set list' function like Korg Module would be a cool way to do program changes for us live players.

    It would also save the trouble of having to mess around with bank change messages if each song had its own A bank of 1-127 patches.

    I was thinking of something along the same lines, specifically to solve for live situations. In order to just leave Obsidian alone, it would be a new instrument type in my mind. It would have macros and a user could create one or more custom banks of presets. The presets themselves could either be from Obsidian or AU instruments.

  • I was referred to this thread after making a feature request for program change. I am thinking that it would be interesting to have program change functionality like in Quantum, where potentially every step could send a PC message to either Obsidian or an AU synth/noisemaker.

  • @ALB said:
    I was referred to this thread after making a feature request for program change. I am thinking that it would be interesting to have program change functionality like in Quantum, where potentially every step could send a PC message to either Obsidian or an AU synth/noisemaker.

    Like! I've had good fun setting up several Obsidian instances on different MIDI channels and then using Quantum's per-step channel sliders to similar effect. Quantum and NS2 (and NS1, actually) a really delightful partners.

  • @Will said:

    @ALB said:
    I was referred to this thread after making a feature request for program change. I am thinking that it would be interesting to have program change functionality like in Quantum, where potentially every step could send a PC message to either Obsidian or an AU synth/noisemaker.

    Like! I've had good fun setting up several Obsidian instances on different MIDI channels and then using Quantum's per-step channel sliders to similar effect. Quantum and NS2 (and NS1, actually) a really delightful partners.

    Will try it- thanks!

  • Just getting acquainted with NS2, as NS1 has been a key part of my live rig. Disheartened to hear there's no Midi PC yet. Any word on whether it's in the works? NS2 is awesome - PC would make it awesomer!

    BTW - I like the idea mentioned above of a favorites section for that you can assign PC 1-128 to.

  • @ALB said:

    @Will said:

    @ALB said:
    I was referred to this thread after making a feature request for program change. I am thinking that it would be interesting to have program change functionality like in Quantum, where potentially every step could send a PC message to either Obsidian or an AU synth/noisemaker.

    Like! I've had good fun setting up several Obsidian instances on different MIDI channels and then using Quantum's per-step channel sliders to similar effect. Quantum and NS2 (and NS1, actually) a really delightful partners.

    Will try it- thanks!

    Did you ever try this combo @ALB? I should get off my ass and make a youtube video of these two together. Probably don't even need to get off my ass to do it. :)

    For me anyway, the big benefit of using NS with Quantum is there absolutely no fuss involved with utilizing all of those potential sequencers from Quantum. You just add another track in NS.

    Oh. I wonder if you could also simulate program changes by sequencing mixer mutes? That is, set up N tracks that are all listening on the same MIDI channel and then mute/unmute them from a separate Quantum sequence.

  • edited January 21

    @Will said:
    I should get off my ass and make a youtube video of these two together. Probably don't even need >to get off my ass to do it. :)

    I would like to see that video!

  • @Will said:

    @ALB said:

    @Will said:

    @ALB said:
    I was referred to this thread after making a feature request for program change. I am thinking that it would be interesting to have program change functionality like in Quantum, where potentially every step could send a PC message to either Obsidian or an AU synth/noisemaker.

    Like! I've had good fun setting up several Obsidian instances on different MIDI channels and then using Quantum's per-step channel sliders to similar effect. Quantum and NS2 (and NS1, actually) a really delightful partners.

    Will try it- thanks!

    Did you ever try this combo @ALB? I should get off my ass and make a youtube video of these two together. Probably don't even need to get off my ass to do it. :)

    For me anyway, the big benefit of using NS with Quantum is there absolutely no fuss involved with utilizing all of those potential sequencers from Quantum. You just add another track in NS.

    Oh. I wonder if you could also simulate programming changes by sequencing mixer mutes? That is, set up N tracks that are all listening on the same MIDI channel and then mute/unmute them from a separate Quantum sequence.

    Hey Will - I did get a chance to try it, but it didn’t work for me the way I had it set up. That is, I had Quantum and Midiflow Adapter in Audiobus into NS2. Obsidian played the note information, but the PC information didn’t register. I’m going to try this again and see where I went wrong.

  • @ALB said:

    @Will said:

    @ALB said:

    @Will said:

    @ALB said:
    I was referred to this thread after making a feature request for program change. I am thinking that it would be interesting to have program change functionality like in Quantum, where potentially every step could send a PC message to either Obsidian or an AU synth/noisemaker.

    Like! I've had good fun setting up several Obsidian instances on different MIDI channels and then using Quantum's per-step channel sliders to similar effect. Quantum and NS2 (and NS1, actually) a really delightful partners.

    Will try it- thanks!

    Did you ever try this combo @ALB? I should get off my ass and make a youtube video of these two together. Probably don't even need to get off my ass to do it. :)

    For me anyway, the big benefit of using NS with Quantum is there absolutely no fuss involved with utilizing all of those potential sequencers from Quantum. You just add another track in NS.

    Oh. I wonder if you could also simulate programming changes by sequencing mixer mutes? That is, set up N tracks that are all listening on the same MIDI channel and then mute/unmute them from a separate Quantum sequence.

    Hey Will - I did get a chance to try it, but it didn’t work for me the way I had it set up. That is, I had Quantum and Midiflow Adapter in Audiobus into NS2. Obsidian played the note information, but the PC information didn’t register. I’m going to try this again and see where I went wrong.

    PCs won't work no matter how you set it up. I was talking about setting up several different Obsidians with different sounds on different MIDI channels and then using the [CH] sliders in Quantum to bounce between them within the same pattern.

  • @Will said:

    PCs won't work no matter how you set it up. I was talking about setting up several different Obsidians with different sounds on different MIDI channels and then using the [CH] sliders in Quantum to bounce between them within the same pattern.

    Ok - I misunderstood from the get go, causing myself needless aggravation. Yes, the channel slider function in Quantum works really well and is a very inventive solution for this. Thanks!

  • @montyrivers said:
    A 'set list' function like Korg Module would be a cool way to do program changes for us live players.

    It would also save the trouble of having to mess around with bank change messages if each song had its own A bank of 1-127 patches.

    yes, either this or something like a "favorites" list that can be selected via PC would be the best options for performers using hardware controllers.

    The midi channel per instrument thing isn't really a great solution tbh.
    I'm using a midi controller to control a handful of other instruments, (all with proper program change implementation) and to have one instrument taking up multiple channels just doesn't work. Not only that, but even if all channels were free, it would mean a limit of 16 patches :-(

  • Soooooo.... one year on from release/purchase.... has there been any progress on Program Changes? Midi Learn?

    I've been wanting to include NS2 in my workflow but haven't heard anything regarding these. Hoping I just missed the news.

    @Blip Interactive Did these make it into an update yet? Cheers.

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